His first maker’s mark was entered at Goldsmiths Hall in 1770 as a smallworker from 5 Old Bailey.
The Parliamentary Report of 1773 into the manner in which the English Assay Offices conducted business shows between 23rd May 1771 and 29th May 1772 22 lbs of his plate failed to meet the standard.
He entered further marks entered as a bucklemaker from 4 Bull and Mouth Street in 1775 and in the same capacity in 1786 from 4 High Street, St Giles.
Others who occupied 4 Bull and Mouth Street include The Glovers (Grimwade p.378) from 1809 and Thomas Egerton White (Grimwade p.381) from 1829.
BAKER, John (Grimwade p.391, 429, 736)
Moderators: MCB, buckler, silverly
BAKER, John (Grimwade p.391, 429, 736)
Last edited by MCB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: BAKER, John (Grimwade p.391, 429, 736)
Grimwade originally gave a John Baker I and a John Baker II , but the addenda (p 736) indicates that Grimwade revised his opinion to regarding them as the same man.
The following seems correct :-
Son of Benjamin Baker, Citizen and Gardener .
3 July 1740
Apprenticed to Theophilis Spendelowe ( untraced ) , free 1747
18 April 1764
Joint Smallworkers mark as James STAMP & John BAKER at Cow Cross
Parnership moved to Ludgate Street by early 1765
11 April 1770
First solo mark,as smallworker at 5, Old Bailey
Heal records John BAKER, plateworker, Old Bailey 1770
In PR1773 as Goldsmith at No 5, Old Bailey
17 January 1774
Solo Bucklemaker marks at 35, Snow Hill
Moved by October 1775 to 4, Bull and Mouth Street .
Joseph Rogers,another bucklemaker was at 5,Bull and Mouth Street from January 1780 to April 1781
Thomas Church, also a bucklemaker was at 6, Bull and Mouth Street from 1782 to 1795
2 March 1786
Solo Bucklemaker mark at 4, High Street , St Giles.
He may well be the mysterious IB whose mark appears on numerous tongs, especially internal spring loaded ones in the 1770's.
For some reason dealers almost invariably attribute these to a (mythical?) John Buckle !
There is also a will probated at PCC on 23rd October 1741 of "John Baker, Bucklemaker of St Andrews, Holborn" who may, or may not, have been a silversmith and connected .
The following seems correct :-
Son of Benjamin Baker, Citizen and Gardener .
3 July 1740
Apprenticed to Theophilis Spendelowe ( untraced ) , free 1747
18 April 1764
Joint Smallworkers mark as James STAMP & John BAKER at Cow Cross
Parnership moved to Ludgate Street by early 1765
11 April 1770
First solo mark,as smallworker at 5, Old Bailey
Heal records John BAKER, plateworker, Old Bailey 1770
In PR1773 as Goldsmith at No 5, Old Bailey
17 January 1774
Solo Bucklemaker marks at 35, Snow Hill
Moved by October 1775 to 4, Bull and Mouth Street .
Joseph Rogers,another bucklemaker was at 5,Bull and Mouth Street from January 1780 to April 1781
Thomas Church, also a bucklemaker was at 6, Bull and Mouth Street from 1782 to 1795
2 March 1786
Solo Bucklemaker mark at 4, High Street , St Giles.
He may well be the mysterious IB whose mark appears on numerous tongs, especially internal spring loaded ones in the 1770's.
For some reason dealers almost invariably attribute these to a (mythical?) John Buckle !
There is also a will probated at PCC on 23rd October 1741 of "John Baker, Bucklemaker of St Andrews, Holborn" who may, or may not, have been a silversmith and connected .
Re: BAKER, John (Grimwade p.391, 429, 736)
Although Grimwade expressed the opinion that the two makers by the name John Baker, originally identified as separate individuals, were one and the same the reasoning for his drawing this conclusion is not altogether made clear.
If there was only one maker of this name he had started in the trade in 1740, the year the first apprenticeship is identified. Although his whereabouts from 1747, when he was made free, and 1764 when he entered a maker’s mark in partnership with James Stamp remain unaccounted for the presumption would be that he had been involved in the silversmith trade working for another master. He was in the partnership with Stamp until 1770 when he entered his own mark.
He is variously described as a plateworker, smallworker, goldsmith or bucklemaker, only the first suggesting the possibility of large scale silverware production.
Despite the apparent 31 years of experience and small scale of production he submitted for assay what seems an extraordinary 22lbs of substandard silver between May 1771 and May 1772.
On occasion it is known for experienced silversmiths to purchase poor standard plate but this usually befalls the inexperienced early in their career.
This gives rise to doubt there was only one individual unless, after so long in the trade, he had gained no previous experience of purchasing good standard plate prior to embarking on his own; rather there were two named John Baker and the second was new to the business in 1770.
If there was only one maker of this name he had started in the trade in 1740, the year the first apprenticeship is identified. Although his whereabouts from 1747, when he was made free, and 1764 when he entered a maker’s mark in partnership with James Stamp remain unaccounted for the presumption would be that he had been involved in the silversmith trade working for another master. He was in the partnership with Stamp until 1770 when he entered his own mark.
He is variously described as a plateworker, smallworker, goldsmith or bucklemaker, only the first suggesting the possibility of large scale silverware production.
Despite the apparent 31 years of experience and small scale of production he submitted for assay what seems an extraordinary 22lbs of substandard silver between May 1771 and May 1772.
On occasion it is known for experienced silversmiths to purchase poor standard plate but this usually befalls the inexperienced early in their career.
This gives rise to doubt there was only one individual unless, after so long in the trade, he had gained no previous experience of purchasing good standard plate prior to embarking on his own; rather there were two named John Baker and the second was new to the business in 1770.
Re: BAKER, John (Grimwade p.391, 429, 736)
Family records indicate that Theophilus Spendelow was born in Litchfield in 1704 and died in 1781.buckler wrote: Son of Benjamin Baker, Citizen and Gardener .
3 July 1740
Apprenticed to Theophilis Spendelowe ( untraced ) , free 1747
Charles Gardener paid for the apprentice indenture of Theophilus son of Jonathan Spendelow of Litchfield apothecary June 19, 1721.
Theo. Spindelowe London Goldsmith paid for the apprentice indenture of John son of Thomas Giblett of St Clement Danes July 31, 1732.
John Bayly son of John Bayly of Somerton, Somerset County Yeoman bound to Theophilus Spendelow London Goldsmith from 16 October 1745 for the term of seven years had been presented before one or more of the wardens and was examined by the clerk Thomas Banks at Goldsmiths Hall 6 May 1755.
Theo. Spendlow Cambridge watchmaker paid for the apprentice indenture of Hen. Brittan on November 1, 1775.
Getting back to John Baker, there is a record of a John Baker having been indentured to his father George Baker London Goldsmith in 1734.