Born 1801 in Bethnal Green.
1851 UK Census for 84 Cheapside as an engraver aged 50 years.
1861 UK Census for 5 Bird in Hand Court, Cheapside as an engraver employing 2 men.
1871 UK Census as a lodger at 90 Pilfield Street, Shoreditch still an engraver.
Probably died 1879.
Engand & Wales Death Index for Hackney register for a Samuel Jackson dated 4th quarter 1879.
JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
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Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
I have been researcing my family history and Samuuel Jackson is my great great great grandfather,The cencus info you have detailed is in the main correct ,however the 1871 cencus is wrong this believe it or not is a different person.Samuel Jackson of cheapside born in 1801in bethnal green was actually living with his son John William (also an engraver),and family in corporation buildings farringdon rd at this time. He gained admission to the charterhouse where he died in 1879,and is buried in the now defunct cemetary in mile end.I however have no kowledge of engraving or what Grimwade is ? I would be much oblged if you have any other information about him or his work.
regards , steve jackson.
regards , steve jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Welcome to the forum Steve and thank you for your information.
Engraving is the technique of decorating metal by cutting in lines.
It's something of a coincidence that there were two engravers by the name of Samuel Jackson, both born around 1801.
The Samuel Jackson whose biography appears on page 559 of London Goldsmiths 1697-1837 Their Marks & Lives by Arthur G Grimwade is said there to have been the son of John Jackson of Potts Street, a dyer of Bethnal Green apprenticed in March 1815 to Walter Jackson, engraver of Gutter Lane. He became a freeman in the City of London in 1822.
This Samuel Jackson worked in the silversmith trade and sent silver items to Goldsmiths Hall, London for assay as the law requires for it to be legally sold. For this purpose he was required to register a maker's mark at the Assay Office which he did in 1822 from 19 Upper Street, St Martin's Lane. He subsequently notified changes of address to 14 Newgate Street in 1823 and 4 Prujean Square, Old Bailey in 1824.
Have you any information which links the above detail with your ancestor please? Otherwise further research will have to be made on the other Samuel Jackson.
Best Wishes
Mike
Engraving is the technique of decorating metal by cutting in lines.
It's something of a coincidence that there were two engravers by the name of Samuel Jackson, both born around 1801.
The Samuel Jackson whose biography appears on page 559 of London Goldsmiths 1697-1837 Their Marks & Lives by Arthur G Grimwade is said there to have been the son of John Jackson of Potts Street, a dyer of Bethnal Green apprenticed in March 1815 to Walter Jackson, engraver of Gutter Lane. He became a freeman in the City of London in 1822.
This Samuel Jackson worked in the silversmith trade and sent silver items to Goldsmiths Hall, London for assay as the law requires for it to be legally sold. For this purpose he was required to register a maker's mark at the Assay Office which he did in 1822 from 19 Upper Street, St Martin's Lane. He subsequently notified changes of address to 14 Newgate Street in 1823 and 4 Prujean Square, Old Bailey in 1824.
Have you any information which links the above detail with your ancestor please? Otherwise further research will have to be made on the other Samuel Jackson.
Best Wishes
Mike
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Mike,
Regarding Samuel Jackson and why i believe him to be the person living in farringdon in 1871 is because i started with my great grandfather Albert,(confirmed by father who is still alive),and on his marriage certificate of 1890 is his father john William (deceased), occupation stated as engraver , and also on his birth certificate.The cencus returns of 1891 and 1901 state that Albert was born in Islington in 1869 .I could not find any cencus returns for the Jacksons in 1881 ,so i went back 10 years to try and find a 2 year old Albert born in Islington , living hopefuly with a father called John William, whos occupation was engraver, and a mother called Emma(nee pollard),and this is exactly what i found on the 1871 cencus.However i also found a Samuel jackson born in Bethnal Green in 1801 as head of family however as there was no occupation stated so i was stumped.On the advice of the family history centre and with a reference number i visited the metropolitan archives, to look for John William Jackson's (batch p020601 scource 0845242) christening record of 1824, and hope that he followed his fathers occupation.This i now have and it states that John William Jackson was christened on 2 jan 1825,(birth dec 1824) at saint Mary le Bow cheapside, to Samuel and Jane Ann Jackson of 97 Cheapside, and that Samuels occupation is Engraver. I have also a photocopy of page 12 of the book of baptisms at st Mary le bow for the year 1825.
I am now convinced that the information you have provided has unlocked a previously closed door to my family history.
regards Steve Jackson.
Regarding Samuel Jackson and why i believe him to be the person living in farringdon in 1871 is because i started with my great grandfather Albert,(confirmed by father who is still alive),and on his marriage certificate of 1890 is his father john William (deceased), occupation stated as engraver , and also on his birth certificate.The cencus returns of 1891 and 1901 state that Albert was born in Islington in 1869 .I could not find any cencus returns for the Jacksons in 1881 ,so i went back 10 years to try and find a 2 year old Albert born in Islington , living hopefuly with a father called John William, whos occupation was engraver, and a mother called Emma(nee pollard),and this is exactly what i found on the 1871 cencus.However i also found a Samuel jackson born in Bethnal Green in 1801 as head of family however as there was no occupation stated so i was stumped.On the advice of the family history centre and with a reference number i visited the metropolitan archives, to look for John William Jackson's (batch p020601 scource 0845242) christening record of 1824, and hope that he followed his fathers occupation.This i now have and it states that John William Jackson was christened on 2 jan 1825,(birth dec 1824) at saint Mary le Bow cheapside, to Samuel and Jane Ann Jackson of 97 Cheapside, and that Samuels occupation is Engraver. I have also a photocopy of page 12 of the book of baptisms at st Mary le bow for the year 1825.
I am now convinced that the information you have provided has unlocked a previously closed door to my family history.
regards Steve Jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Hello Steve
Thank you for the further information.
I suspect what we have on the 1871 Census records is a duplication of entries for your ancestor Samuel Jackson born in Bethnal Green in 1801. Unlike the entry for him as a lodger at Pilfield Street the entry for him living with John William Jackson and family at 41 Corporation Buildings gives no detail of his occupation or where he was born but the son and father relationship there is clear and no earlier reference has been found for an engraver of that name born in 1801.
In the course of trying to resolve the issue further information regarding Samuel Jackson, the engraver, has come to light:
In addition to the christening of John William at St Mary le Bow in 1825 which is mentioned there were christenings of two other children of Samuel and Jane Anne Jackson there; in 1823 of daughter Jane Anne and in 1826 of daughter Jane Elizabeth. In both instances Samuel was recorded as an engraver, firstly at 97 Cheapside and then at 58 Cheapside.
It seems he moved around a lot. As well as the addresses referred to above, which he notified to Goldsmiths Hall, he is shown on the christening record of daughter Sarah Anne at St Stephen, Coleman Street in 1830 living at 21 Ironmonger Lane. In 1837 two more daughters, Lydia Mary and another Sarah Anne were christened at St James, Clerkenwell when Samuel and his wife Jane Anne were living at 11 Bucklesbury. On all of these occasions he remained an engraver.
There appears to have been not a little tragedy in his life in that three daughters died very young, Jane Anne in 1824, his first Sarah Anne in 1834 and Lydia Mary (reversed to Mary Lydia in the record) in 1843.
The 1841 UK Census record finally came to light and showed the family living at Rodney Buildings, Newington where he still operated as an engraver.
His wife Jane Anne was born in Sussex around 1795 and her burial in 1866 is recorded in the Bethnal Green register.
Mike
Thank you for the further information.
I suspect what we have on the 1871 Census records is a duplication of entries for your ancestor Samuel Jackson born in Bethnal Green in 1801. Unlike the entry for him as a lodger at Pilfield Street the entry for him living with John William Jackson and family at 41 Corporation Buildings gives no detail of his occupation or where he was born but the son and father relationship there is clear and no earlier reference has been found for an engraver of that name born in 1801.
In the course of trying to resolve the issue further information regarding Samuel Jackson, the engraver, has come to light:
In addition to the christening of John William at St Mary le Bow in 1825 which is mentioned there were christenings of two other children of Samuel and Jane Anne Jackson there; in 1823 of daughter Jane Anne and in 1826 of daughter Jane Elizabeth. In both instances Samuel was recorded as an engraver, firstly at 97 Cheapside and then at 58 Cheapside.
It seems he moved around a lot. As well as the addresses referred to above, which he notified to Goldsmiths Hall, he is shown on the christening record of daughter Sarah Anne at St Stephen, Coleman Street in 1830 living at 21 Ironmonger Lane. In 1837 two more daughters, Lydia Mary and another Sarah Anne were christened at St James, Clerkenwell when Samuel and his wife Jane Anne were living at 11 Bucklesbury. On all of these occasions he remained an engraver.
There appears to have been not a little tragedy in his life in that three daughters died very young, Jane Anne in 1824, his first Sarah Anne in 1834 and Lydia Mary (reversed to Mary Lydia in the record) in 1843.
The 1841 UK Census record finally came to light and showed the family living at Rodney Buildings, Newington where he still operated as an engraver.
His wife Jane Anne was born in Sussex around 1795 and her burial in 1866 is recorded in the Bethnal Green register.
Mike
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Mike,
I was aware of the two daughters christened at st mary le bow, but not the subsequent ones,or what happened to any of them or to Jane Ann herself.i still dont understand the duplication of cencus records for 1871 or how this can be? or why the constant change of address ? . I have a death certificate for Samuel registered on 28th of January 1879 from a prostate problem (died 17th).occupation stated as pensioner of the Charterhouse. ? He entered the Charterhouse on 11july 1877 sponsored by sir William Earle ?
I am amazed how quickly you obtain your information , it has taken me a couple of years on and off to arrive at this point. Mike,is it possible to view one of Samuels engraving marks, or to view or obtain a piece of his work any furter info would also be much appreciated.
regards, steve jackson.
I was aware of the two daughters christened at st mary le bow, but not the subsequent ones,or what happened to any of them or to Jane Ann herself.i still dont understand the duplication of cencus records for 1871 or how this can be? or why the constant change of address ? . I have a death certificate for Samuel registered on 28th of January 1879 from a prostate problem (died 17th).occupation stated as pensioner of the Charterhouse. ? He entered the Charterhouse on 11july 1877 sponsored by sir William Earle ?
I am amazed how quickly you obtain your information , it has taken me a couple of years on and off to arrive at this point. Mike,is it possible to view one of Samuels engraving marks, or to view or obtain a piece of his work any furter info would also be much appreciated.
regards, steve jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Hello Steve
In theory the Census should be completed on an appointed day but in practice it took longer during which time people moved and were recorded in two places. The entry of the word "lodger" in one of Samuel's addresses in 1871 could be indicative of temporary residence.
No examples of Samuel's work have come my way. It is likely he engraved a lot of the time for others whose maker's mark would be the one on the article. The reason he had entered a maker's mark of his own may have been to deal with the occasions when he used silverware from other manufacturers which had not been assayed, embellished the pieces with designs to a customer's specification, added his own maker's mark and sent the finished article to Goldsmiths Hall himself. Alternatively he may have engraved work which had been assayed and overstruck the original maker's mark with his own.
The mark registered at Goldsmiths Hall in 1822 is reproduced at item 2559 in Grimwade's book referred to above should you wish to see it.
Regards
Mike
In theory the Census should be completed on an appointed day but in practice it took longer during which time people moved and were recorded in two places. The entry of the word "lodger" in one of Samuel's addresses in 1871 could be indicative of temporary residence.
No examples of Samuel's work have come my way. It is likely he engraved a lot of the time for others whose maker's mark would be the one on the article. The reason he had entered a maker's mark of his own may have been to deal with the occasions when he used silverware from other manufacturers which had not been assayed, embellished the pieces with designs to a customer's specification, added his own maker's mark and sent the finished article to Goldsmiths Hall himself. Alternatively he may have engraved work which had been assayed and overstruck the original maker's mark with his own.
The mark registered at Goldsmiths Hall in 1822 is reproduced at item 2559 in Grimwade's book referred to above should you wish to see it.
Regards
Mike
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Mike,
Thanks for all your info,regarding Samuel, not wishing to sound naive,do i have to visit Goldsmiths hall in person to see the Grimwade directory ?
Regards, steve jackson.
Thanks for all your info,regarding Samuel, not wishing to sound naive,do i have to visit Goldsmiths hall in person to see the Grimwade directory ?
Regards, steve jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Hi Steve
Do not worry about asking questions from this site. Us silver freaks do not get out much , and you genealogy guys often give us information we do not find. It's very much to mutual advantage !
Arthur Grimwade - 'London Goldsmiths - 1697-1837 - Their Marks & Lives' is a reference book published in 1976.
It has now been over twenty years since the last revised and enlarged 3rd edition was published but that edition is still available, although Arthur is dead now.
Copies are VERY EXPENSIVE (around £150) and only worth getting if you have an interest in all the London Gold and Silversmiths of the period . There is a review of the book on the Amazon site which is given below
London Goldsmiths 1697-1837 : Their Marks & Lives (Hardcover)
The title London Goldsmiths, although, like the book very accurate, may mislead some people as the term Goldsmiths embraces Silversmiths. This is, to my mind, the only authoritative published source for the marks and details of London silversmiths of the period. Jackson, often quoted as the silver "bible ", is totally outclassed on London smiths by this book.
It basically comprises of lists of all "makers" marks in the surviving London Goldsmiths Hall registers, with virtually all except the very minor silversmith marks illustrated, plus brief information, especially dates, for each smith. Details of the minor smiths, including the bucklemaker marks are confined to the mark, address and dates of punch registration . For everyone else Grimwade gives all the information he can squeeze in, with his very extensive research covering father, apprenticeship details , changes of address etc. Details from Heal and the Parliamentary Report of 1773 are also added to each biography.
There are two missing registers of the period (Smallworkers 1739 -1758 and Largeworkers 1758-1773) although what marks and details from these registers which were known to Grimewade are given.
There are very, very few errors and the book is a masterpiece of research ,information and compression.
Any dealer or collector of the silverware of the period MUST have this book. The cost may seem high - but my copy has virtually disintergrated from use and I will replacing it with new one - although copying over my notes will be a daunting task.
When it was out of print copies were eagerly bought at virtually any price up to £250 so do not let it's current availablity escape you.
This review was written by a buckle collector , but apart from that, it's fairly sound.
A visit to Goldsmith's Hall however may be a good idea , although prior booking is necessary. You would be able to see the apprentice book entry for him, a copy of the actual mark he registered, together with his signature. A card index may give details of any of his apprentices, which will enable you to trace his address at the time. The Goldsmiths Company Court minutes were well indexed at the time and again may have references to him, especially if he was a naughty boy at any time.
Do not worry about asking questions from this site. Us silver freaks do not get out much , and you genealogy guys often give us information we do not find. It's very much to mutual advantage !
Arthur Grimwade - 'London Goldsmiths - 1697-1837 - Their Marks & Lives' is a reference book published in 1976.
It has now been over twenty years since the last revised and enlarged 3rd edition was published but that edition is still available, although Arthur is dead now.
Copies are VERY EXPENSIVE (around £150) and only worth getting if you have an interest in all the London Gold and Silversmiths of the period . There is a review of the book on the Amazon site which is given below
London Goldsmiths 1697-1837 : Their Marks & Lives (Hardcover)
The title London Goldsmiths, although, like the book very accurate, may mislead some people as the term Goldsmiths embraces Silversmiths. This is, to my mind, the only authoritative published source for the marks and details of London silversmiths of the period. Jackson, often quoted as the silver "bible ", is totally outclassed on London smiths by this book.
It basically comprises of lists of all "makers" marks in the surviving London Goldsmiths Hall registers, with virtually all except the very minor silversmith marks illustrated, plus brief information, especially dates, for each smith. Details of the minor smiths, including the bucklemaker marks are confined to the mark, address and dates of punch registration . For everyone else Grimwade gives all the information he can squeeze in, with his very extensive research covering father, apprenticeship details , changes of address etc. Details from Heal and the Parliamentary Report of 1773 are also added to each biography.
There are two missing registers of the period (Smallworkers 1739 -1758 and Largeworkers 1758-1773) although what marks and details from these registers which were known to Grimewade are given.
There are very, very few errors and the book is a masterpiece of research ,information and compression.
Any dealer or collector of the silverware of the period MUST have this book. The cost may seem high - but my copy has virtually disintergrated from use and I will replacing it with new one - although copying over my notes will be a daunting task.
When it was out of print copies were eagerly bought at virtually any price up to £250 so do not let it's current availablity escape you.
This review was written by a buckle collector , but apart from that, it's fairly sound.
A visit to Goldsmith's Hall however may be a good idea , although prior booking is necessary. You would be able to see the apprentice book entry for him, a copy of the actual mark he registered, together with his signature. A card index may give details of any of his apprentices, which will enable you to trace his address at the time. The Goldsmiths Company Court minutes were well indexed at the time and again may have references to him, especially if he was a naughty boy at any time.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
hi, Thanks very much for your information on the Grimwade book,i had no idea how much interest there is in this field ,i didnt even know that my ancestor engraved silver until i stumbled here by accident.I am also amazed that Arthur Grimwade went to such length in compiling these biographies ,i will definately arrange a visit to Goldsmiths hall to view Samuels mark etc.
regards,steve jackson.
regards,steve jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Sir, I have a part question and part information with regard to my ancestor Samuel Jackson.I have just read an article on Christies website describing the auction of a George 111 silver guilt salver,engraved by WalterJackson that sold for £33,350 (makers mark Thomas Hemming,engraving attributed to Walter Jackson c.1812).The article goes on to mention an album acquired by the Victoria and Albert museum in 1976 which includes a large number of designs by Walter Jackson and his apprentice SAmuel Jackson,possibly his nephew who joined him in 1815 and became free in 1822.Is there a reason why Walter Jackson is not in Grimwades ? Also the information i have regarding Walter also mentions Samuuel Goodbehere and James Bult who i have noticed are on this forum. Reference Number: t18170917-119 (taken from the old bailey sessions september 17,1817).
1226. WILLIAM BETTERIDGE was indicted for stealing, on the 9th of September , one silver tankard, value 11l. , the goods of Samuel Goodbehere and James Bult .
JAMES STEVENS . I am shopman to Messrs. Samuel Goodbehere and James Bult , who are silversmiths , and live in Cheapside . On the 9th of September, the prisoner called at our house - I delivered a silver tankard to him to take to his masters, Messrs. Jackson and Donne, to be engraved, between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning - He never returned it. I am certain he is the man.
WALTER JACKSON . I am an engraver. The prisoner was my servant, and used to go round to the customers to collect work. Messrs. Goodbehere and Co. were our customers. He went out on the 9th of September, as usual, and never returned-he never brought the tankard. I could not find the prisoner till last Thursday, when he said - He got drunk, and did not know what had become of it, some person took it from him. He had been six months with us.
Prisoner. I have nothing to say.
GUILTY . Aged 30.
Transported for Seven Years .
London Jury, before Mr. Recorder
I am not sure if any of this is of interest to this forum,regards steve jackson.
1226. WILLIAM BETTERIDGE was indicted for stealing, on the 9th of September , one silver tankard, value 11l. , the goods of Samuel Goodbehere and James Bult .
JAMES STEVENS . I am shopman to Messrs. Samuel Goodbehere and James Bult , who are silversmiths , and live in Cheapside . On the 9th of September, the prisoner called at our house - I delivered a silver tankard to him to take to his masters, Messrs. Jackson and Donne, to be engraved, between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning - He never returned it. I am certain he is the man.
WALTER JACKSON . I am an engraver. The prisoner was my servant, and used to go round to the customers to collect work. Messrs. Goodbehere and Co. were our customers. He went out on the 9th of September, as usual, and never returned-he never brought the tankard. I could not find the prisoner till last Thursday, when he said - He got drunk, and did not know what had become of it, some person took it from him. He had been six months with us.
Prisoner. I have nothing to say.
GUILTY . Aged 30.
Transported for Seven Years .
London Jury, before Mr. Recorder
I am not sure if any of this is of interest to this forum,regards steve jackson.
Re: JACKSON, Samuel (Grimwade p.559)
Grimwade only lists goldsmith/silversmiths who entered marks at Goldsmiths Hall.
Only smiths who intended to send their work for assay needed a mark, as they acted as the sponsor for the article, i.e were responsible for it's silver purity. Walter Jackson, as an engraver for other people, would not need a mark. He may still have been a member of the Goldsmiths' Company, or of some other Guild.
Only smiths who intended to send their work for assay needed a mark, as they acted as the sponsor for the article, i.e were responsible for it's silver purity. Walter Jackson, as an engraver for other people, would not need a mark. He may still have been a member of the Goldsmiths' Company, or of some other Guild.