The following may all be coincidental but in view of Grimwade's recording Coughlan in London between 1762-63, the later entry in the Parliamentary Report list of 1773 and the unusual name it is worth comment.
Taken from The Dictionary of National Biography for John Wesley.
About November 1764 Wesley obtained ordination for several of his preachers from a certain Erasmus Bishop of Arcadia in Crete---------it is not stated whether Erasmus ordained them to the priesthood; it is certain that two of them, John Jones and Lawrence (sic) Coughlan, on leaving Wesley, were ordained by the Bishop of London.
When they left Wesley isn't recorded.
COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
Moderators: MCB, buckler, silverly
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
This raises an interesting question. We know ,see http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74&t=26279 that on 23 February 1762 Laurence Coughlan, Widower and Anne Andrews,Widow, married by licence at St Giles, Cripplegate without. Both were described as "of this parish". Ann(e) was undoubtedly the Ann Andrews, widow of John Andrews , who took over his silversmiths business in Brick Lane after his death in 1759 and entered marks in 1759, 1760 and 1761. Although all were registered as smallworkers, they and their apprentice, Thomas Wilkinson , appear to have been bucklemakers.
But was Coughlan the Silversmith the same man as Coughlan the Methodist Preacher ?
There is another entry in the DNB specifically for Laurence Coughlan the Preacher .
Below is a very much edited precis
Coughlan, Laurence (d. 1784), founder of Methodism in Newfoundland, was born in Ireland. His parentage unknown. By birth a Roman Catholic, he converted to Methodism at Drummersnave, Leitrim, in 1753, and was soon afterwards recruited as an itinerant preacher, serving initially in Ireland and, on being transferred to England, at Whitehaven in Cumberland and Colchester in Essex. In 1760 he went back to Ireland and preached at Waterford, the port through which most Irish servants left for work in the Newfoundland fishery. He returned to London, and on 23 February 1762 married Anne Andrews in the parish of St Giles Cripplegate. Coughlan was by then a widower. He had already, to John Wesley's dismay, ‘married and ruined’ one woman, details of whom are unknown ......
Coughlan sailed to Newfoundland and returned to London in autumn 1766 with a petition from the inhabitants to the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts asking that he be appointed missionary and given a stipend. Coughlan was appointed SPG missionary in December. In September 1767, accompanied by his wife and daughter Betsey, he went back .
After some difficulties in Newfoundland he appeared in late 1773 before the SPG in London and resigned his mission. Coughlan's subsequent career was as a preacher in the Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion, a sect of Calvinistic Methodists. He served in at least two of her London chapels, those at Cumberland Street and Holywell Street, near Shoreditch. He died in 1784, according to Wesley ‘utterly broken in pieces, full of tears and contrition for his past unfaithfulness’.
It should be noted that the DNB entry categorically identifies the Coughlan who married Anne Andrews in 1762 as the Methodist preacher.However this could be a mistake by DNB (not unknown !) in ascribing this marriage to the wrong man . DNB, Grimwade and myself have all ben guilty of this offence on occasions !
The case of " Does Laurence Coughlan the Silversmith = Laurence Coughlan the Preacher "
AGAINST
The PR1773 gives Laurence Coughlan at Brick Lane, Old Street - without category. Difficult if he is in Newfoundland and Thomas Wilkinson has taken over the premises. However it appears that most of the information on locations etc were provided by Goldsmiths' Hall and it is possible that they were unaware that LC was no longer there. The absence of category certainly indicates a lack of knowledge.
The PR1773 gives Thomas Wilkinson at Pear Tree Street, Old Street. However Pear Tree Stree runs off Brick Lane and the Coughlan entry was in the register was made when general area rather than specific address was the norm.
FOR
The PR1773 gives no entry for broken plate for Coughlan. Neither however does it for Wilkinson.
I have only ever seen Coughlan's marks on buckles which in style are pre 1765. But then I've only seen two pairs and a single ! Although the scarcity of his , and Ann Andrews buckles, does tend to indicate a limited time span.
VERDICT
Until surving propery records are examined - suspended opinion.
Once I've looked at LMA at Poor Rates, Land Tax Assessments , Inhabitants list etc for St Luke Old Street we may know for sure.
But was Coughlan the Silversmith the same man as Coughlan the Methodist Preacher ?
There is another entry in the DNB specifically for Laurence Coughlan the Preacher .
Below is a very much edited precis
Coughlan, Laurence (d. 1784), founder of Methodism in Newfoundland, was born in Ireland. His parentage unknown. By birth a Roman Catholic, he converted to Methodism at Drummersnave, Leitrim, in 1753, and was soon afterwards recruited as an itinerant preacher, serving initially in Ireland and, on being transferred to England, at Whitehaven in Cumberland and Colchester in Essex. In 1760 he went back to Ireland and preached at Waterford, the port through which most Irish servants left for work in the Newfoundland fishery. He returned to London, and on 23 February 1762 married Anne Andrews in the parish of St Giles Cripplegate. Coughlan was by then a widower. He had already, to John Wesley's dismay, ‘married and ruined’ one woman, details of whom are unknown ......
Coughlan sailed to Newfoundland and returned to London in autumn 1766 with a petition from the inhabitants to the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts asking that he be appointed missionary and given a stipend. Coughlan was appointed SPG missionary in December. In September 1767, accompanied by his wife and daughter Betsey, he went back .
After some difficulties in Newfoundland he appeared in late 1773 before the SPG in London and resigned his mission. Coughlan's subsequent career was as a preacher in the Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion, a sect of Calvinistic Methodists. He served in at least two of her London chapels, those at Cumberland Street and Holywell Street, near Shoreditch. He died in 1784, according to Wesley ‘utterly broken in pieces, full of tears and contrition for his past unfaithfulness’.
It should be noted that the DNB entry categorically identifies the Coughlan who married Anne Andrews in 1762 as the Methodist preacher.However this could be a mistake by DNB (not unknown !) in ascribing this marriage to the wrong man . DNB, Grimwade and myself have all ben guilty of this offence on occasions !
The case of " Does Laurence Coughlan the Silversmith = Laurence Coughlan the Preacher "
AGAINST
The PR1773 gives Laurence Coughlan at Brick Lane, Old Street - without category. Difficult if he is in Newfoundland and Thomas Wilkinson has taken over the premises. However it appears that most of the information on locations etc were provided by Goldsmiths' Hall and it is possible that they were unaware that LC was no longer there. The absence of category certainly indicates a lack of knowledge.
The PR1773 gives Thomas Wilkinson at Pear Tree Street, Old Street. However Pear Tree Stree runs off Brick Lane and the Coughlan entry was in the register was made when general area rather than specific address was the norm.
FOR
The PR1773 gives no entry for broken plate for Coughlan. Neither however does it for Wilkinson.
I have only ever seen Coughlan's marks on buckles which in style are pre 1765. But then I've only seen two pairs and a single ! Although the scarcity of his , and Ann Andrews buckles, does tend to indicate a limited time span.
VERDICT
Until surving propery records are examined - suspended opinion.
Once I've looked at LMA at Poor Rates, Land Tax Assessments , Inhabitants list etc for St Luke Old Street we may know for sure.
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
It would seem that Laurence Coughlan the Silversmith = Laurence Coughlan the Preacher .
A considerable amount of information has now come to light so that I can be 90% sure now.
A check on the rate books should confirm this.
Watch this space
A considerable amount of information has now come to light so that I can be 90% sure now.
A check on the rate books should confirm this.
Watch this space
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
The Poor Rate Books of St Luke, Old Street, Old Street Liberty are slightly incomplete but read as follows.
No number is shown but the house can be traced year on year by the neighbouring properties rate payers
Missing periods are missing Rate Books. The LTA's have not survived for this period or are unreadable
1754 "Charles Thorpe - Gone away"
1754/55 "Andrews" [ usually it took the collector a year or so to record the forename ]
1755 "John Andrews"
1756/57 "John Andrews"
1758/59 "John Andrews"
1760/61 "Widow Andrews" [Ann Andrews]
1762/63 (i) "Widow Andrews" [with " Laurance Coughlan" writed close by as a note ] .William Dean was next door !
1762/63(ii) "Widow Andrews"
1762/63(iii) "Lau....Cockley" [ with "Wilkinson" writed close by as a note ]
1764/65 "Thomas Wilkinson"
So far it all appears entirely as expected - with Ann and Laurence about to vanish to Newfoundland, returning to England around 1772, ending up in Shoreditch where first Laurence, then Ann died. Thomas Wilkinson takes over the business.
BUT !!!!!
1766/67 " Coffling" [is this Coughlan or perhaps a Gossling or ????]
1767/68 "Coffling " [ with "Whittingham " writed close by as a note ]
Whitingham appears on many properties presumably as the landlord, with several unnamed "Inmates"
1769/70 " Thomas Dewing "
1770/71 " Thomas Dewing"
1772/73 "Thomas Dewing
Who Coffling as is the problem. It should be remembered that Coughlan was Irish and he may, despite being a preacher have had a pronounced accent.
Another unexpected problem is Thomas Wilkinson whereabouts. As expected he takes over from Andrews / Coughlan around 1763. And vanishes from there around 1767, when Grimwade records him as entering a mark in "Pear Tree Street, near Old Street".
But he does not appear in the rate books of Pear Tree Street at all !
No number is shown but the house can be traced year on year by the neighbouring properties rate payers
Missing periods are missing Rate Books. The LTA's have not survived for this period or are unreadable
1754 "Charles Thorpe - Gone away"
1754/55 "Andrews" [ usually it took the collector a year or so to record the forename ]
1755 "John Andrews"
1756/57 "John Andrews"
1758/59 "John Andrews"
1760/61 "Widow Andrews" [Ann Andrews]
1762/63 (i) "Widow Andrews" [with " Laurance Coughlan" writed close by as a note ] .William Dean was next door !
1762/63(ii) "Widow Andrews"
1762/63(iii) "Lau....Cockley" [ with "Wilkinson" writed close by as a note ]
1764/65 "Thomas Wilkinson"
So far it all appears entirely as expected - with Ann and Laurence about to vanish to Newfoundland, returning to England around 1772, ending up in Shoreditch where first Laurence, then Ann died. Thomas Wilkinson takes over the business.
BUT !!!!!
1766/67 " Coffling" [is this Coughlan or perhaps a Gossling or ????]
1767/68 "Coffling " [ with "Whittingham " writed close by as a note ]
Whitingham appears on many properties presumably as the landlord, with several unnamed "Inmates"
1769/70 " Thomas Dewing "
1770/71 " Thomas Dewing"
1772/73 "Thomas Dewing
Who Coffling as is the problem. It should be remembered that Coughlan was Irish and he may, despite being a preacher have had a pronounced accent.
Another unexpected problem is Thomas Wilkinson whereabouts. As expected he takes over from Andrews / Coughlan around 1763. And vanishes from there around 1767, when Grimwade records him as entering a mark in "Pear Tree Street, near Old Street".
But he does not appear in the rate books of Pear Tree Street at all !
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
Hello Clive
An all points bulletin sent to geneology web sites for Coffling achieved very few "hits". Although the possibility that someone named Coffling might have occupied the house the odds therefore seem pretty extreme.
Cockley on the other hand is more a common name in the London area but prefaced by "Lau..." this possibility too seems remote.There was however a James Cockley of St Giles burial recorded on 30th July 1766 at St George, Bloomsbury which muddies the waters a little.
All in all though your suggestion that listeners didn't correctly translate "Coughlan" when it was spoken in an Irish brogue seems to me the right one to explain these names
Regards
Mike
An all points bulletin sent to geneology web sites for Coffling achieved very few "hits". Although the possibility that someone named Coffling might have occupied the house the odds therefore seem pretty extreme.
Cockley on the other hand is more a common name in the London area but prefaced by "Lau..." this possibility too seems remote.There was however a James Cockley of St Giles burial recorded on 30th July 1766 at St George, Bloomsbury which muddies the waters a little.
All in all though your suggestion that listeners didn't correctly translate "Coughlan" when it was spoken in an Irish brogue seems to me the right one to explain these names
Regards
Mike
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
Thanks Mike
I did a similar check on Coffling on Google , NA , etc with the same conclusion . It is a name but rare. As is Coughlan in England although common in Ireland.
I suspect that the property was used by Wilkinson but the collector vaguely remembered Coughlan and used that for his pre listing. The absence of a forename is slightly significant. The collector , being an unpaid and probably unwilling member of St Lukes vestry might well not have known the name of a non -conformist who would not dream of entering his church !
All exciting stuff. In all I'm now 99% sure we have the right man.
I did a similar check on Coffling on Google , NA , etc with the same conclusion . It is a name but rare. As is Coughlan in England although common in Ireland.
I suspect that the property was used by Wilkinson but the collector vaguely remembered Coughlan and used that for his pre listing. The absence of a forename is slightly significant. The collector , being an unpaid and probably unwilling member of St Lukes vestry might well not have known the name of a non -conformist who would not dream of entering his church !
All exciting stuff. In all I'm now 99% sure we have the right man.
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
A liitle more information on Lawrerence Coughlan has come to light
2 January 1760
His first marriage
Findmypast.co.uk gives an image of a transcription of the Prestbury Parish Register for the Year 1760
"Number. Marriages at Prestbury "
" 1 Macclesfield Laurence Coughland Methodist Preacher and Sarah Davie Astbury Parish by Licence January 2nd"
[Macclesfield and Astbury are close together and near Prestbury, Cheshire. There were few marriages by licence at Prestbury]
8 April 1784
His will provend at PCC which tells us very little except he must have died prior to early April 1784. The will was made in 1777.
The NA have it under Lurence or Laurence Coughlen [ PROB 11/1115/264]- which explains my past failure to find it.
"In the Name of God Amen
I Lurence Coughlen [ sic — this appears to have been put in afterwards as the register clerk obviously found difficulty reading the original] of Holywell Mount in the Parish of Saint Leonard Shoreditch in the County of Middlesex Clerk being of sound mind memory and Understanding do make publish and declare this to be my last Will and Testament in the manner following ( that is to say) [ final bracket omitted] First and Principally I commend my Soul into the Hands of Almighty God who gave it me and to my dear Redeemer who bought me with his blood and to God the Spirit who hath taken of the Thing [substance ?] of the Redeemer and has shown thou to my poor Soul and my Body I commit to the Earth to be correctly buried at the discretion of my Executrix hereafter named
and as to my Worldly Estate as it has pleased God to bestow upon me I give and dispose hereof as followeth [sic] (that is to say ) I give and bequeath unto my dear and loving Wife Ann Coughlan her Executors Administrators and Assigns all my Household Stuff and all other my Estate Freehold Copyholds Leaseholds Real and Personal Estate and Effects whatsoever and wheresoever whereof I shall be possessed and I do hereby nominate constitute and appoint my said Wife Ann Coughlan Sole Executrix of this my Will hereby revoking all former and other Wills by me at any time heretofor made and do declare this to be my last Will and Testament
In Witness thereof I the said Laurence Coughlan the Testator have hereunto set my Hand and Seal this twenty seventh day of November the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy seven L. Coughlen Signed Sealed Published and declared by the said Laurence Coughlan [sic — the clerk really struggled with his name ] the Testator as and for his last Will and Testament in the presence of us who in his presence at his request and in presence of each other ( the Words her Executors Administrators and Assigns being first interlined ) have subscribed our Names as Witnesses
Mary Lewis
John Gaunt "
Proved at London 8th April 1784 in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury by Ann Coughlan Widow .
2 January 1760
His first marriage
Findmypast.co.uk gives an image of a transcription of the Prestbury Parish Register for the Year 1760
"Number. Marriages at Prestbury "
" 1 Macclesfield Laurence Coughland Methodist Preacher and Sarah Davie Astbury Parish by Licence January 2nd"
[Macclesfield and Astbury are close together and near Prestbury, Cheshire. There were few marriages by licence at Prestbury]
8 April 1784
His will provend at PCC which tells us very little except he must have died prior to early April 1784. The will was made in 1777.
The NA have it under Lurence or Laurence Coughlen [ PROB 11/1115/264]- which explains my past failure to find it.
"In the Name of God Amen
I Lurence Coughlen [ sic — this appears to have been put in afterwards as the register clerk obviously found difficulty reading the original] of Holywell Mount in the Parish of Saint Leonard Shoreditch in the County of Middlesex Clerk being of sound mind memory and Understanding do make publish and declare this to be my last Will and Testament in the manner following ( that is to say) [ final bracket omitted] First and Principally I commend my Soul into the Hands of Almighty God who gave it me and to my dear Redeemer who bought me with his blood and to God the Spirit who hath taken of the Thing [substance ?] of the Redeemer and has shown thou to my poor Soul and my Body I commit to the Earth to be correctly buried at the discretion of my Executrix hereafter named
and as to my Worldly Estate as it has pleased God to bestow upon me I give and dispose hereof as followeth [sic] (that is to say ) I give and bequeath unto my dear and loving Wife Ann Coughlan her Executors Administrators and Assigns all my Household Stuff and all other my Estate Freehold Copyholds Leaseholds Real and Personal Estate and Effects whatsoever and wheresoever whereof I shall be possessed and I do hereby nominate constitute and appoint my said Wife Ann Coughlan Sole Executrix of this my Will hereby revoking all former and other Wills by me at any time heretofor made and do declare this to be my last Will and Testament
In Witness thereof I the said Laurence Coughlan the Testator have hereunto set my Hand and Seal this twenty seventh day of November the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy seven L. Coughlen Signed Sealed Published and declared by the said Laurence Coughlan [sic — the clerk really struggled with his name ] the Testator as and for his last Will and Testament in the presence of us who in his presence at his request and in presence of each other ( the Words her Executors Administrators and Assigns being first interlined ) have subscribed our Names as Witnesses
Mary Lewis
John Gaunt "
Proved at London 8th April 1784 in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury by Ann Coughlan Widow .
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
Recent research at Leicester on the marriage of John and Ann Andrews has shown, beyond reasonable doubt, that
Laurence Coughlan the Silversmith = Laurence Coughlan the Preacher
Information on that marriage has confirmed all my previous conjuctures to be correct. Details will be posted on the Ann Andrews and the John Andrews site soon.
Laurence Coughlan the Silversmith = Laurence Coughlan the Preacher
Information on that marriage has confirmed all my previous conjuctures to be correct. Details will be posted on the Ann Andrews and the John Andrews site soon.
Re: COUGHLAN, Laurence (Grimwade p.473)
Further proof that Ann Andrews, the widow of John Andrews is the lady who married Laurence Coughlan is provided by the her will proved at PCC on 10 September 1795. as Ann Coughlan (TNA/ PROB 11/1265)
It clearly shows as beneficiaries many of her children and grandchildren who have Andrews as last or middle in their names . See http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74&t=26280
Two shoe buckles by Laurence Coughlan, the left one being a naval officers shoe buckle .
Mark of Laurence Coughlan entered March 1763 (Grimwade 1905)
It clearly shows as beneficiaries many of her children and grandchildren who have Andrews as last or middle in their names . See http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74&t=26280
Two shoe buckles by Laurence Coughlan, the left one being a naval officers shoe buckle .
Mark of Laurence Coughlan entered March 1763 (Grimwade 1905)