INNOCENT, John (Grimwade p.557 and 754)

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INNOCENT, John (Grimwade p.557 and 754)

Postby buckler » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:17 pm

An examination of the registers at Goldsmiths Hall show that Grimwade Unidentified Mark No 3647 is more likely to be John Jones mark of 5th May 1777 rather than John Innocent.

Philippa Granville in Silver in England, page 163.
"a bucklemaker, John Innocent of Little Newport Street, was accused af casting hallmarks from marked buckles 'to buckles moulded in sand' but apparently this was a false accusation by a disgruntled apprentice since no evidence against him was found in his shop or workshop"
Information from Prideaux 1896, vol II.

3 June 1767 - Proceedings of the Old Bailey ref t17670603-36
"J. Innocent. I am a silversmith , and keep a shop in Little Newport-street . The prisoner came into my shop last Saturday, and cheapened a pair of buckles; I asked him 18 s. he bid me 12, and went away"

There are assorted addresses given for him in insurance documents and pollbooks 1780 —1794
John Innocent , Silversmith, Newport Street (1780)
John Innocent , Goldsmith of Cranbourn Alley St Anne Soho (1780)
John Innocent , Jeweller of Cranbourn Street St Anne Soho, (1784)
John Innocent , Goldsmith of Newport Street St Anne Soho (1788)
John Innocent , silversmith ,Newport Street. (1794)

13th April 1791- Proceedings of the Old Bailey ref t17910413-28
JOHN INNOCENT I am a goldsmith and jeweller .. .. I was standing at my window, looking at a silver-bladed knife which a woman brought in to sell; I heard my window smash; and, looking, I saw the prisoner Cawsey endeavouring to grapple for the diamond ring out of my window: I went to my door; and my son, Robert Innocent, ran after him, and brought him back, and he was searched, and nothing found upon him; we thought that he might have swallowed it; and the justice allowed us to keep him at our house a week.

Nice job checking for its re-emergence!

3rd July 1797 - Will of John Innocent, Newport Street Cranbourn Passage proved at Prerogative Court of Canterbury,

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Re: INNOCENT, John (Grimwade p.557 and 754)

Postby dognose » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:37 am

Court of Wardens, 26th February 1767

This day the Wardens (agreeably to the desire of the last Committee) meet and examine one Thomas Grant, late a journeyman to John Innocent, of Little Newport Street, silversmith, as to the information by him lately given to the Clerk charging the said John Innocent with felony, for casting the Company's Hall marks to buckles moulded in sand from others marked at the Hall. And the Wardens thereupon desire Mr. Alderman Crosby and Mr. Alderman Hallifax to take the examination of the said Thomas Grant upon oath, which they accordingly do, and then Mr. Alderman Crosby grants a warrant for the apprehension of the said John Innocent

Court of Wardens, 11th March 1767

The Clerk acquaints the Wardens that on Thursday evening, the twenty-sixth of February last, John Innocent was apprehended upon Mr. Alderman Crosby's warrant, and lodged in the Compter that night ; and was next day, by order of the Lord Mayor, carried before Mr. Kelynge, one of the Justices for Westminster, who, upon Thomas Grant's re-swearing his evidence, committed the said John Innocent to Clerkenwell Bridewell for further examination. And the Clerk also acquaints the Wardens that he, with Mr. Edward Aldridge, went the same day, by the advice of Mr. Kelynge, and examined the show glasses and workshop of the said John Innocent, but could find no buckles with cast marks thereon; and that the said John Innocent was on Wednesday, the fourth instant, brought before Sir John Fielding, Peter Planck, Esquire, and other Justices for Westminster, for further examination, but that the said Thomas Grant absconded, and did not appear; and, as no buckles or other silver wares with cast marks thereon could be produced, the Justices discharged the said John Innocent out of custody.

Source: Memorials of the Goldsmiths' Company; Being Gleanings from their Records Between the Years 1335 and 1815 - by Walter Sherburne Prideaux - 1896

With reference to the first entry above, Thomas Grant may have the silversmith using the pseudonym 'W.J.' in this earlier note:

Court of Wardens, 3rd December 1766

The Clerk lays before the Wardens a letter directed to him, just now received by the penny post, signed " W. J.," but without any date, desiring by an open advertisement to be informed what penalty a silversmith is liable to for sending one half of his work to the Hall to be marked, and running the other half of worse silver ; and offering to make known the particulars in every shape. And the Wardens are pleased to direct the Clerk to cause an advertisement to be inserted in the Daily Advertiser desiring the said " W. J." to call on him at Goldsmiths' Hall any evening this week, at 5 o'clock, to explain the particulars hinted at, and stating that he will receive the information he desires.

Source: Memorials of the Goldsmiths' Company; Being Gleanings from their Records Between the Years 1335 and 1815 - by Walter Sherburne Prideaux - 1896

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