Cruet Set

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moonshine
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:36 pm

Cruet Set

Postby moonshine » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:09 pm

Hello.
This small Cruet Set, with six glass pieces, has marks that are quite rubbed.
It's possible the maker's mark is HH, but I'm really not sure.
The date letter is a lowercase e, but I can't make out the shape of the cartouche, so not sure how to date it.
It also has a coronet crown in a wreath I could use help with.
Over 7 inches to the top of handle and 2 inches to top of bowl.
181 grams.
Thanks.

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SteveDWollongong
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby SteveDWollongong » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:50 pm

Hello,

I can shed a little light on your cruet. The third photo shows the crowned leopard head for London so we know where, and that it was assayed before 1822 when the leopard lost its crown. The photos aren't clear and there are several possibilities for the lower case 'e' but judging by the letter shape I think the most likely is 1820.
If this is correct and the makers marks is definitely HH, then it would tie in with Hyam Hyams who was operating at this time. No guarantees but a good starting point.

Better macro photos (usually a picture of a flower on the camera), taken without flash in natural light may provide more definite answers although the marks look fairly rubbed.


Cheers,
Steve

agphile
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby agphile » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:05 am

I would have thought that stylistically the silver belonged more to the 1780s than the 1820s. I cannot make out whether the marks include a King's Head duty mark. If not, 1780 is a possibility for the lower case e. I cannot suggest a likely HH for that date. If RH is as likely a reading, Robert Hennell I produced similar items. Only a suggestion. I won't claim to be in any way definitive about date or maker.

agphile
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby agphile » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:07 am

I should have added a question. Is there any sign of a repeat maker's mark on the central column/handle?

SteveDWollongong
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby SteveDWollongong » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:12 pm

I agree with you Agphile the style is definitely more 18th rather than 19th C. Further, I think I can see the bottom of an oval cartouche to the makers mark, which would rule out Hyams and corroborate Hennell I.

Will just have to wait and see what further info comes to light

moonshine
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Cruet Set

Postby moonshine » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:57 pm

Hello. Thank you for the responses. I've attempted better pictures.
The marks do not include a King's head duty mark,
and there is no sign of a repeat maker's mark on the central column/handle, just the lion on the center piece.

I also found online what looks to be the exact same set as mine, with different bottles, described as being Hester Bateman. But I have no way of confirming that, as there are no pictures of the marks.

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moonshine
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Cruet Set

Postby moonshine » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:10 pm

One more pic. This may be the best one yet for the maker's mark.

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agphile
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby agphile » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:04 pm

The extra photos are helpful. No duty head means your marks must be prior to 1784. If you do not have Grimwade, the reference book for London marks, you can go to the invaluable silvermakersmarks.co.uk site to look up the RH marks of Robert Hennell I and see how you think yours compares after allowing for the distortions of wear.

Hester Bateman is a red herring. This style of cruet was not unique to any single maker and Hester's mark on such objects used cursive script. However, the picture of her cruet raises another question. In my first reply I was careful to refer specifically to the style of the silver because I wasn't certain about the bottle shown with your cruet. I am more used to seeing them in the style of the bottles on the Bateman cruet. I slightly wonder whether your glass bottles might be replacements, but I am no expert on glassware.

moonshine
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Cruet Set

Postby moonshine » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:23 pm

Thank you for your response. I too think that some of the bottles might be replacements, and at the very least are probably missing their silver liners.
Thanks again.

moonshine
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Cruet Set

Postby moonshine » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:30 pm

Any thoughts on the Coronet Crown in Wreath. Thanks.

agphile
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby agphile » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:14 pm

The engraving appears to be a crescent within a wreath with an earl's coronet above. It is not in the normal form of a family crest. If it is nonetheless meant as a crest one either needs to plough through the many families with a crescent as a crest and check whether any of them held an earldom at the right time or to plough through a list of earls of the right date and check their family crests. However it looks to me more like a badge than a crest and I am afraid don't know how to check who or what might have used such a badge. I am no expert in heraldry so the foregoing may not be the best starting point. It might be worth posting this item in the family crests forum in the hope of attracting more expert comment.

dognose
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Re: Cruet Set

Postby dognose » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:28 pm

I'll move the topic to the family crests section.

Trev.


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