Coat of Arms on English made 1794 Sterling Goblet

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ceces
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Coat of Arms on English made 1794 Sterling Goblet

Postby ceces » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:08 pm

Any help would be greatly appreciated-Thank you- Cece



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nobilityhouse
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Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: Coat of Arms on English made 1794 Sterling Goblet

Postby nobilityhouse » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:26 pm

I’ve seen a set of goblets with this armorial in an auction by John Moran Auctioneers from the estate of Ernest A. Bryant III. They were listed as assayed at London, date letter B for 1797. Eight of the 12 had gold washed bowls. The engraving of the bear was even worse and gave it a bad swayback. Unfortunately, I don’t think it is a real coat of arms.

This armorial lacks the characteristics one would find in 18th or 19th century heraldry. An engraving can be made at any time; not always when the item is new. It is not well executed; perhaps it was done by an apprentice engraver.

With an engraving, the hatching indicates the color and a green border (bordure) is unusual.

The first and fourth quarters should be the match to the crest and motto, but I haven’t found any matches. The shield is red, the bend has a scalloped design and the walking animals are not well engraved and show no features. It is surprising to see such indistinct features when elaborate mantling and flourishes were the norm. I’ve seen spoons with greater detail, so it is not due to size. But even these clues of tinctures and charges, without knowing what the animals are, should have brought up a match.

The second and third quarters show a lion’s or bear’s paw (gamb) as a lone charge is something that I’ve not seen in UK heraldry. The motto, Pro Patria, is quite common, but I could not find one that matched the crest or arms.

The supporters, the bear with the arrow in the back and the eagle, belong to McAlester (Macalastair) of Loup and Kennox, and don’t belong with these arms, crest or motto.

It seems this armorial is cobbled together. If anyone else has more information, I would defer to his expertise. Kind regards.

ReddWing
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:31 pm

Re: Coat of Arms on English made 1794 Sterling Goblet

Postby ReddWing » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:11 pm

Look under "METHENY" or "BAXTER" it's very close if not a match for 1 or the other


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