Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

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dognose
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Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby dognose » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:14 pm

Hi,

Here is some unusual marking on a Swedish spoon.

Image

Image

A tablespoon, 8 1/2" (21.5cm) in length, with feather edged border.

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MALMSTEDT - Gothenburg city mark - P2 date mark (1797) - Three Crowns State Mark.

The maker is unknown to me. Hopefully some can assist with this first question? But what about the marks below? They are struck on the front of the spoon. I suppose that they are not silver marks, but marks perhaps, that identify the owner, but the punch used is so detailed that surely these must be government marks.

Image

Any thoughts?

Trev.

Qrt.S
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:36 pm

Here you are: Johan Malmstedt 1783-1831 from Göteborg in Sweden. he was born 1759, apprentice 1.6.1775, journeyman 2.7.1781 and master 19.3.1783, alderman 12.2.1810. He was married to Helena Westman 1783 and he died 7.6.1831.

No, the second marks are not silver marks but probably nobility crests due to the coronet (?). Is it Swedish nobility or not you have to find out for your self. There are almost Swedish 3000 crest to scan.

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby dognose » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:45 pm

Hi Qrt.S,

Many thanks for your help with the maker.

The marks on the front are not struck neatly, not like you would expect to have them struck onto the family silver. I wonder if this spoon was from a government department, perhaps military or naval mess, or consular silver.

Just wondering!

Thanks again for your help.

Regards Trev.

Qrt.S
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:55 pm

You're welcome, on second taught your wondering is not bad at all, but the coronet? Unfortunately I'm a Finn not a Swede and unfamiliar with the Swedish military crests.

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby dognose » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:14 am

Just moving this one to see if any further information can be found for these armorial marks.

Trev.

WarrenKundis
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby WarrenKundis » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:49 pm

May be over simplifying this process but 1797 as a relative date in relation to the spoon. The left coat of arms is mounted cavalry with crossed muzzle loading rifles above. Unit insignia? Infantry are organized into paltoons, companies, etc. Cavarly into squadrons. Could it be that this prince, hence the cornet, was the commanding officer, honorary or not at the time? May help to narrow down the possibilities.

Warren

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby dognose » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:36 pm

Hi Warren,

Yes, I think we're on the right track. Let's hope someone can come up with additional information.

Trev.

WarrenKundis
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Göteborg Spoon

Postby WarrenKundis » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:28 pm

The shield on the right at first appeared to show a chevron between three stars but the last strike appears to show an additional smaller shield below that third star. Can't seem to isolate Swedish armorial crests from primarily English ones. Someone else may have better luck.

W

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby dognose » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:28 pm

I came across an article in a Finnish journal of 1926 containing the below illustration:

Image

The spoon illustrated has been struck with a similar device.

Has anyone come across such marking before? Or has knowledge of it?

Trev.

WarrenKundis
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby WarrenKundis » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:06 pm

Appears to be another good lead. After reading your post Trev, in English titled: The Swedish Cavalry Regiments of the Napoleonic Wars by Bjorn Bergerus. Most of the units recruitment was through the Crown's Allotment System Office. Although there was one unit made up of Nobles referred to as The Flag of Nobles of Sweden and Finland (Adelsfanan i Sverige och Finland).

A further search lead me to Tacitus.Nu at https://tacitus.nu/karoliner/fanor/Fanr ... /vol-1.htm Quickly viewing the regimental flags turned up no positive match. Someone who speaks Swedish may have much better luck.

Warren

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby dognose » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:28 am

Hi Warren,

Many thanks for the useful link and your further thoughts. It is very much appreciated.

Trev.

WarrenKundis
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby WarrenKundis » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Thanks Trev,

Always happy to help when I can. Going through Tacitus.nu more slowly today, it was stated that regimental standards had two different motifs. On the obverse was the provincial coat of arms and the reverse were the Royal cypher. Some the provincial coats of arms do bear a coronet at the top although only one unit shown of volume 5 #248 Drottningens Livregemente 1780 illustrated a double coat of arms similar to the one we seek.

Did a general search on Swedish, Finnish, Danish, and Norwegian provincial and municipal coats of arms without a possible match. Still believe the one of the right of yours is personal or provincial and the one on the left very military focused. Bergerus mentions that only the Cuirassier and Carabineer units carried side arms with attachable stocks that could turn them into carbines.

Tacitus.nu has a guest book where you can ask the site owner Orjan Martinsson questions. Might be time to ask his and Bjorn Bergerus assistance.

Warren

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby dognose » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Thank you Warren for your continued help in attempting to solve this mystery.

Trev.

dognose
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Re: Mysterious Marks on Gothenburg Spoon

Postby dognose » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:51 am

Here's the full article that I found, perhaps a kind Finnish speaker can tell us if there are any clues contained within the text?

Image

Image

Trev.


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