Newport Trophy Hallmark

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
StephenCWLL
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Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:09 am

Hello,

I'm pretty sure I've nailed the ID of this trophy but I need a little help on the middle emblem below:

Image

I've got that it was made in England and the g is for 1922 but the middle item, which is the shape of a shield with no distinguishable features, I'm not sure about. I know from the label on the base of the trophy that it was made by Charles Ince, Silversmiths of Newport. Is the middle item related to Wales or Newport?

AG2012
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:18 am

Hi,
The date is correct (1922).
The mark in the middle is leopard`s head for London Assay Office.
Regards

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:13 am

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
The date is correct (1922).
The mark in the middle is leopard`s head for London Assay Office.
Regards


Thanks :)

Does that mean it wasn't made in Newport?

It would be Silver though wouldn't it, what with the Lion mark?

AG2012
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:37 am

Hello again,
Lion mark means sterling.Take a look here:
http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html
Is there maker`s mark ? Search the trophy, there should be maker`s mark somewhere.If identified we could determine where he worked.

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:05 am

AG2012 wrote:Hello again,
Lion mark means sterling.Take a look here:
http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html
Is there maker`s mark ? Search the trophy, there should be maker`s mark somewhere.If identified we could determine where he worked.


Sadly the trophy is on display currently so can't access it until October.

The base of the trophy isn't on display, which is where I saw the Ince, Newport mention (see below) which had me thinking of Wales.

Image

AG2012
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:59 am

Take a look here for CHARLES INCE 75, Bridge Street, Newport
viewtopic.php?t=38520&start=80

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:19 am

AG2012 wrote:Take a look here for CHARLES INCE 75, Bridge Street, Newport
http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=80


Thanks :) I've subsequently heard that the London Assey Office stamp was sued where the makers didn't have their own stamp? I'd assume Charles Ince never got a stamp registered.

silvermakersmarks
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby silvermakersmarks » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:40 am

Ince would most likely be the retailer. I think I see the remains of a sponsor's or maker's mark to the left of the hallmark but I can't work out what it might be just at the moment:

Image

The London Assay Office mark used when there is no sponsor's mark registered is LAO (as well as the hallmark):

Image

Phil

AG2012
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:41 am

London Assay Office was the closest to Newport, so Ince assayed silver in London.It does not mean they had no maker`s mark registered, although I have not seen one.
Regards

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:48 am

silvermakersmarks wrote:Ince would most likely be the retailer. I think I see the remains of a sponsor's or maker's mark to the left of the hallmark but I can't work out what it might be just at the moment:

Image

The London Assay Office mark used when there is no sponsor's mark registered is LAO (as well as the hallmark):

Image

Phil


Possible that's a mark but I've looked at the trophy again closely and i'd be more inclined to think it's a random 'ware and tare' mark as the whole trophy is flooded in numerous distorted discoloration. I can't see anything significant elsewhere but can't get to the trophy's base at this moment in time.

I'm confused again :) The middle mark of the three; is it for London Assay Office or is LAO for that office? Or does it just depend?

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:49 am

AG2012 wrote:London Assay Office was the closest to Newport, so Ince assayed silver in London.It does not mean they had no maker`s mark registered, although I have not seen one.
Regards


Ok, gotcha :)

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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby silvermakersmarks » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:25 am

A London hallmark after 1890 has 4 components:
- the standard mark (lion passant for sterling)
- the uncrowned leopard's head for London
- the date letter
- the sponsor's mark

LAO stands in place of the sponsor's mark so is not something we need to consider in the case of the trophy; there should be a sponsor's mark somewhere which is why I suspected that it might be what I see to the left of the other 3 components of the hallmark.

I would just note that although Ince describes himself as a silversmith on the label it does not necessarily mean that he was a manufacturing silversmith.

StephenCWLL
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:13 pm

silvermakersmarks wrote:A London hallmark after 1890 has 4 components:
- the standard mark (lion passant for sterling)
- the uncrowned leopard's head for London
- the date letter
- the sponsor's mark

LAO stands in place of the sponsor's mark so is not something we need to consider in the case of the trophy; there should be a sponsor's mark somewhere which is why I suspected that it might be what I see to the left of the other 3 components of the hallmark.

I would just note that although Ince describes himself as a silversmith on the label it does not necessarily mean that he was a manufacturing silversmith.


Ok. So not silver?

I'm getting more mixed up :)

Only thing I'm sure about now is 1922. In case of trophy, we know it's London, registered at London Assay Office and 1922. That's it? Ince may or may not have made it but was likely who sold it?

AG2012
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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby AG2012 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Hello again,
Of course it`s silver - the standard mark (lion passant for sterling).
Assayed in London and Ince was probably a retailer.
Please. read carefully what`s written above, as well as links given for reference.
Regards

StephenCWLL
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Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:56 am

Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby StephenCWLL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:22 pm

AG2012 wrote:Hello again,
Of course it`s silver - the standard mark (lion passant for sterling).
Assayed in London and Ince was probably a retailer.
Please. read carefully what`s written above, as well as links given for reference.
Regards


Thanks :)

I thought when it said '4 components' that it meant one or the other regarding either there'd be a lion passant or a lion without a crown. I can't really see the crown in the one on the trophy so assumed it was "just" a lion, hence, just made in England.

It's far too easy to get confused. I try to read the various pages but still get confused :)

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Re: Newport Trophy Hallmark

Postby silvermakersmarks » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:21 pm

The lion does not have a crown so don't bother to look for it. The leopard's head does not have a crown either, but it should look more like this:

Image

Clearly the best part of a century of polishing has reduced the finer details to a blank outline.

We all started out confused and I apologise if what I posted increased your confusion. What I love about the British hallmarking system is the logical way it all fits together, and then to find that there are some very intriguing exceptions and quirks....


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