What City Mark is this?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
jdpb1shop
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:03 pm

What City Mark is this?

Postby jdpb1shop » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:12 pm

I'm unfamiliar with I what I believe to be the City Mark on this old pair of wine coasters. Drilling into your London data, the maker's mark looks to be a match with Thomas Wallis & Jonathan Hayne (http://www.925-1000.com/dlLondon15.html#M), and the date looks like 1810. But what is that City Mark? It sure doesn't look like London.

Image

Here are the coasters:

Image

Thanks for any help!

SteveDWollongong
contributor
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:28 am
Location: Australia

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby SteveDWollongong » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:27 pm

Hi,

These are really interesting marks. They are all definately fantasy marks, but from where they originate and why, I don't know. I have seen this same set once before in an article and the owner is possibly a forum member here also so may be able to add something more if he sees this post.

Okay just found the article and it's very interesting reading....here's the link:

http://www.ascasonline.org/ARTICOLOSETTEM210.html

Cheers,
Stevce

jdpb1shop
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby jdpb1shop » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:27 pm

Steve,

How fascinating! They are absolutely the same marks as those shown http://www.ascasonline.org/ARTICOLOSETTEM210.html, making it likely that the coasters (if that's what they're called) and the decanter labels were meant for each other, even sold as a set.

What's interesting to me is that they came from a family line that had quite a bit of very fine silver, some of which is now in the Met and other museums. And I'd always assumed they'd been in the same house since ~1906. FWIW, they held decanters that are genuinely from the 1700s. They seem quite old, and the two have slight differences, which makes them appear to be hand made.

Perhaps there was chaff amid the wheat! What a mystery!

Many thanks Steve,
jdpb1shop

SteveDWollongong
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Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:28 am
Location: Australia

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby SteveDWollongong » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:09 am

Hi Jdpb1shop,

I don't think there is any question as to them being of a high quality and I assume they are made of solid high grade silver just as the bottle coasters are.

The fact that you are located in the US and your bottle labels have a likely long provenance there, does point toward them originating there. As you may be aware, it was common for early American silversmiths to copy English marks, but I've never seen them copied to quite this extent...especially the makers mark. As you identified, it is a good likeness to the mark belonging to Thomas Wallis & Jonathan Hayne.

It would be great to establish the maker and find out when they were in business. These could have been made say circa 1810 -1820 or could be later reproductions with pseudo marks to make them look much older. Wait and see what others have to say.

Cheers,
Stecve

SteveDWollongong
contributor
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:28 am
Location: Australia

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby SteveDWollongong » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:26 am

Sent that last post before I'd previewed it...

The last paragraph was should have been:

It would be great to establish the maker and find out when they were in business. They could have been made circa 1810 -1820 or be later reproductions with pseudo marks to make them look much older. Could you post some photos of both the inside and the underside as this may help.

I'll be interested to see what other think too.

Cheers,
Steve

jdpb1shop
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:03 pm

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby jdpb1shop » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:03 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for all the great info. Yep - I shouldn't have called them "chaff" -- I quite like them and am lucky to have gotten them, whatever their origin.

I'm attaching a few more photos as suggested - maybe they will reveal something.

Inside - wood base:

Image

Inside, cracks in wood base:

Image

Bottom, showing old felt on wood:

Image

All best!
jdpb1shop

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 32367
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: What City Mark is this?

Postby dognose » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:27 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

A link to a topic showing the same set of marks: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=34721&p=89866

Image

Interesting to note that the only two times this particular set of marks have appeared on the forum, both have been struck on items related to wine/spirits. Perhaps a silversmith that specialised in this type of product?

I'll move the topic to the Provincial/Colonial section to see if we have any luck there.

Trev.


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