Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

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dognose
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Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby dognose » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:13 pm

Hi,

Any thoughts of the origin of this pseudo-marked small ladle? It is likely a colonial piece, perhaps North American or even possibly Chinese.

Image

Image
R.O - Bust - Lion Passant - Leopard's Head

Any thoughts appreciated.

Trev.

Francais

Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby Francais » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:42 pm

There is in Langdon an R.O mark that looks very similar in Langdon, your photo is a little out of focus, so I can't be sure.
He attributes the mark to Robert Osborne 1851-1869 Hamilton Ontario. The ladle certainly looks like it could be Canadian. The pseudo marks shown in Langdon are different, but those changed around a bit over the years in Canada.
Maurice

Francais

Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby Francais » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:49 pm

Now I would say certainly Canadian I found the same pseudo marks on a piece with a different maker in Toronto, Ontario.
Maurice

dognose
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Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby dognose » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi Maurice,

Many thanks, that's a great lead. Was the other maker Judah Joseph?

Trev.

Francais

Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby Francais » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:40 pm

Hi,
No, Henry Jackson, Joseph doesn't seem to have the same marks, but the picture in Langdon isn't very clear.
I didn't keep looking after Jackson, as his are certainly the same. I have never really studied the later Canadian silver, as I am mostly interested in the French silversmiths. I think however in some manner they often shared marks, I don't know if there was any control or not. Jackson's leopard has the same funny left ear, so either they worked together, or one inherited the marks from the other, or they were some kind of control
Maurice

dognose
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Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby dognose » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:10 pm

Hi Maurice,

I doubt very much that there was any local control, but the possibility of sharing of punches, or perhaps the more likely scenario that one person was the maker, be it Osborne, Jackson, or even another maker that supplied both, ready made with their mark, is very possible.

The ladle is not mine, I'm seeking the information for a third party. I'll try to obtain a sharper image from them.

Trev.

Francais

Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby Francais » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:54 pm

By local control, I wasn't referring to official control, but agreements between silversmiths themselves.
There is some evidence, and certainly it makes sense for silversmiths in a community to agree among themselves to keep a certain standard. I think that is a possible explanation for mark sharing.
With a clearer photo of the RO mark, it should be possible to make a comparison, but it is certainly Canadian.
Maurice

dognose
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Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby dognose » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:45 am

Hi Maurice,

Some more images:

Image

Image

Image

We can now see why the 'funny ear' detail that you remarked upon has occurred, the punch is chipped and has a crack running through it from 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock. Of course, earlier examples of the same set of marks are unlikely to contain this detail.

Trev.

Francais

Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby Francais » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:43 pm

The R.O is the same as shown in Langdon attributed to Robert Osborne. With this maker's mark are a lion, a beaver in a very odd cartouche, and a right facing Queen Victoria. There are two other marks shown for him: a R.O. with strong similarities to your mark, and a rather indistinct sovereign head and a beaver, and a R. Osbourne with different indistinct pseudo marks. The R. Osbourne mark shows very little similarity to either R.O mark, (pellet instead of period, etc) but if Langdon's attribution is correct it is presumably just caused by different die cutters.
Maurice

dognose
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Re: Small Ladle - RO - Pseudo Marks

Postby dognose » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:57 pm

Hi Maurice,

Many thanks for the information, it's appreciated.

Trev.


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