Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

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robert12
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Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby robert12 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:28 am

Help with this set of strange marks on this teaspoon please.
Probably Scottish as bought with a collection of spoons that included Paisley and Greenock area items.
Have not found anything with similar marks as yet.


http://db.tt/FYmV4v7j
http://db.tt/sELWm14G




Thanks in advance, Robert12

Granmaa
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby Granmaa » Mon May 21, 2012 3:09 pm

I'm almost completely ignorant when it comes to Scottish provincial, but since no-one's answered yet...could the I and V stand for Inverness?

Miles

robert12
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby robert12 » Tue May 22, 2012 1:20 pm

I did consider Inverness as on page 54 of Highland Gold and Silversmiths book there is a large letter "I "
along with a Donald Frasers mark.There is no "V " mentioned anywhere though.I dont know the significance of these marks.
There are 2 Inverness silversmiths with the initials JP , John Pratt & John Pearson who could fit in with likely date of the spoon
but unfortunately no marks of theirs showing in the book. so still a mystery and in my unascribed box.

Robert

StewartMcI
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby StewartMcI » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:45 pm

I have seen similar combinations of marks, including the odd second mark.

I would be guessing Indian Colonial, although I can't see an exact match in either of Wilkinson's books.

Best of luck identifying them,

Stewart

robert12
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby robert12 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:34 am

Hi Stewart,
thanks for the suggestion of Indian Colonial, it was one I had not considered, but can see some similarities.
The second mark like a chess pawn is a strange one. I thought of Scottish origin as I bought a bundle of spoons
from a dealer who got them from a Scottish Inn that had gone out of business. All the other items were definitely
Provincial and from a quite local area. Its a nice spoon that stays in my unascribed box at present.

Robert

dognose
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby dognose » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:55 am

Hi Robert,

The second mark is, I believe, a representation of a thistle.

As far as the 'V' is concerned, I've noted this letter on a few occasions, when seen, it has been accompanied with marks that the do not normally fit with the with the maker. It's just a very vague theory of mine that this letter may have been struck when the spoon was sold in a location where the maker was not a member of the local guild and thus would not have been allowed to work in that town, ie, it was retailed by another.

Here is an example of the 'V' mark with marks that do not fit with the maker:

Image

Image

Image
IK - V - Double headed eagle - Tree with bauble

A teaspoon 5" (14cm) in length. Oar pattern with shoulders.

Likely to have been made by John Keith, but perhaps sold at Perth. Perhaps John Keith had a customer at Perth, or another scenario could be that a retailer was selling a secondhand item. I've nothing to back this up, it's just speculation on my part and offered only as a vague possibility.

Trev.

robert12
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby robert12 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:06 am

Hi Trev

I like your theory of the "V" mark maybe applied at point of sale,maybe in an area where a silversmith is not a guild member.
Your example is in an oval though, but still a possibility. Mine could also be a poorly stamped "W" .
Two other items that came in the same batch have J.N (retailer mark ? ) stamped each side of the marks, these are Greenock and Paisley
so would tend to lean to Provincial on this one, perhaps the previous owner/collector took the knowledge with him !
I remain open to all suggestions.
Great mixed marks on your example, a curious combination.I have the tree & 3 bauble mark, but straight across the bottom of
the shield, not in an oval.

Robert

Scotprov
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Re: Odd Scottish J.P marks ?

Postby Scotprov » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:14 am

I am confident that your J.P piece is not Scottish Provincial. There are some pieces with an 'I' tentatively attributed to Greenock. though your piece has a mark, which may be called a stylised thistle, so it may have been made by a Scottish smith in the colonies. The marks are unusually crisp, with very clear V & I, so it had to be somewhere where a specialist punch maker was in business.
Not a lot of help, I am afraid.


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