Britisch provincial?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Athos
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Britisch provincial?

Postby Athos » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:09 pm

Dear forum,

Does anybody know this maker?
I am the owner of a leather 'blackjack' with a silver mounth.
To me it looks quit early. The silver mounth is marked only with a lion, walking to the left and a makersmark IP.
Because there are no other marks, I think it is maybe Brithisch Provincial.
Image
Image
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:29 pm

Hi Athos,

What a fantastic piece, I'm not sure, but I think its the first time we have had a blackjack on the Forum.
Is that a pellet between the I and P, or just a reflection or mark?

Regards Trev.
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Athos
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Athos » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:43 pm

Hi Dognose,

It is a fantastic piece and about 18cm (7inch) high.
There is nothing between the IP, it's just the reflection.
I am not sure about the date of this 'blackjack', I also red that sometimes the silver mounth is from a later date.
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:05 pm

Hi Athos,

The origins of Blackjacks go back to medieval times and they were still popular up to the end of the 17th, early 18thcentury, they were much loved items and often the silver that was applied was a reflection of the owners improved wealth, so as you said, this rim could well be a later addition.
I'm not sure of the protocol on the Hallmarks that were applied to such items, it may well be that the Maker's mark and the Lion Passant was the only marks used, if this was the case then London should not be discounted.

Regards Trev.
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nigel le sueur
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Postby nigel le sueur » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:28 am

Athos
This is the first blackjack l have ever seen, it does appear to have some age to it, the trouble is the makers mark I P is a very common one and where the lion is well rubbed l find it very difficult to see if it is london or not, maybe the town mark has been rubbed, are there any signs of a town mark ? the reson l ask is to the right of the lion appears to be an indentation or is it just a reflection ?
Anyway thanks for the photo at last l have seen one.
Regards
Nigel
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Athos
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Postby Athos » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:52 am

Hi Nigel,
Thanks for your reaction.
There are no other marks on the silver mounth, only the makersmark IP and the lion passant.
I can't find other marks, no rubbed marks.
I know it will be very difficult to find out the maker.
Regards
Athos
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Granmaa
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Postby Granmaa » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:57 am

Could the blackjack predate the silver rim, I wonder? As Trev says, blackjacks were popular in the 17th century, but the rim suggests to me the late 18th century.

Miles
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Athos
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Postby Athos » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:01 am

Hi Miles,
I think you and Trev. are right, probably the silver is from a later date.
Regards
Athos
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georgiansilver
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Postby georgiansilver » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:19 am

The blackjack is almost certainly 18thc and the silver rim... which I suggest is by Joseph Preedy of London is almost certainly a later addition. Have seen a few of these with similar silver mounts...none of which appear to fit well. I believe this is because the wear at the top of the blackjack through use, prevents successful perfect matching. They have all borne the same initals of IP... Only one was attributed to Joseph Preedy but I think that is enough evidence to suggest he is a contender for the work.
Best wishes, Mike.
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Athos
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Athos » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:33 am

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reaction.
Very helpfull, also with this 'blackjack' the silver rim does not fit very well, also because of the silver-sheat liner inside.
Best regards
Athos
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:12 pm

Hi Athos,

You say there is a silver liner, this would certainly have been a later addition and another indication of the wealth of the owner.
Is it removable, and if so, are there any marks?

Regards Trev.
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Athos
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:49 am

Postby Athos » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:00 pm

Hi Trev.
The silversheet linner is not removable and is totaly black( as the rim was). Because this silver is very thin I did not clean it, and I could not see anything that looked like a mark.
Regards,
Athos
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