Cork John Warner IW

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robert12
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Cork John Warner IW

Postby robert12 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:10 pm

I have this lovely little goblet about 10 cm tall.
Marked underneath STERLIN- and IW
There is no pellet between letters and the punch is broken above the W
Is this John Warner of Cork or maybe another IW silversmith ? Bob
Image
Image

scorpio
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Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby scorpio » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:14 pm

Neither Douglas Bennett nor the authors of Cork Silver and Gold show this IW mark without pellet although Bennett does portray an IW mark without pellet in a serrated reserve. Jackson's Silver and Gold Marks shows an IW mark without pellet in a plain rectangular reserve, seen on a communion cup c1791 and a pair of two-handled cups, attributing it to John Warner, John Williams or James Warner.

You can forget John Williams as it is highly unlikely he ever had a mark on his own. Refer to my research on Carden Terry and John Williams here:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=40203

The style of the goblet, especially the circular beaded base, suggests c1780 so rules out John Warner's eldest son, James Warner. Refer to my Carden Terry Cork cream jug with similar circular beaded base here:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=39303

I've never come across that IW mark without pellet myself, but on the basis of what Jackson says, it seems entirely possible your goblet is by the Cork silversmith, John Warner, who worked from 1775-1810.

robert12
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Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby robert12 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:35 pm

Thanks for the information links posted.
More than happy to think of it as a John Warner goblet, the lack of a pellet just made me wonder if there was another possible provincial smith.
Your info seems to rule out John Williams and James Warner by the process of elimination so thank you for that.
The good thing is the marks were struck underneath so have not been rubbed away.
A nice little understated item that I agree fits around circa 1780 period.

robert12
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Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:41 pm

Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby robert12 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:06 am

A family member, a retired silversmith thinks that this item is more likely a Goose egg cup than a goblet.
The top lip is folded over which would perhaps not be essential on a goblet but would reinforce the top to hold an egg securely.
It measures 6 cm across the top and is nearly 6 cm full depth. (My normal egg cups are about 4.5 cm across and down)
Any thoughts on this please ?
Bob

scorpio
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Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby scorpio » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:40 pm

I just saw 'goblet' in your original post and '10cm tall'' went right past me!

Your retired silversmith could be right. One would expect a late 17th century Georgian silver goblet to be larger, perhaps c.15cm tall and c.9cm across at the top.

scorpio
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Location: Ireland

Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby scorpio » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:43 pm

My post should have read "One would expect a late 18th century Georgian silver goblet to be larger, perhaps c.15cm tall and c.9cm across at the top." (NOT late 17th century)

robert12
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Re: Cork John Warner IW

Postby robert12 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:55 pm

A goose egg cup is the most likely attribution for this item.
I did think it was perhaps not the best shape for drinking from.
Thanks for your help.
Bob


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