Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
SilverK
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Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby SilverK » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:57 am

Does anybody know anything about this American Silversmith named 'Fleming'? I've attached a picture of his remarkably clear mark. It's stamped to the base of a small mug or cup. Many thanks.

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dognose
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby dognose » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:36 pm

Hi SilverK,

Just moving your topic into the 'Family Crests' section to see if the crest may provide a clue to the origin.

Trev.

dognose
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby dognose » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:11 pm

A search throws up the name of King as a possibility, and there is a 'K' in the top set of engraved initials.

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I'm uncertain as to which coronet this, Marquess perhaps? Can anybody confirm that?

Trev.

SilverK
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby SilverK » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:22 pm

A nice discovery, Trev! Looking at the General Armory, there's the following entry for "King":

King (Mount Pleasance, co. Waterford; confirmed 1809, by Betham, then Deputy Ulster, to THOMAS KING, Esq., and the descendants of his grandfather, WILLIAM KING). Gu, a lion ramp. betw. three trefoils, two and one ar. and as many crescents, one and two or. Crest - Out of a ducal coronet or, a dexter hand, third and fourth fingers az, Motto - Medio tutissimus ibis.

It's very tempting to think there may be a connection here, and an Irish one at that, though the obvious absentee is the motto. Is there any way we can find any other users of this crest?

dognose
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby dognose » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:05 pm

Another couple of points of note, the maker's mark 'FLEMING' appears to prefix letter, perhaps 'A'.

The lower part of the engraving "to LJD" appears to be worked by a different hand, and judging by the central position of the other engravings, is a later addition.

Trev.

SilverK
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby SilverK » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:28 pm

Well, now I’ve completed my research, I can confirm that this cup was indeed made in Waterford. Not American at all! It was made by either Anastasia Fleming, or her son, Ignatius Fleming around 1800. The prefix letter referred to by Dognose is confirmed as a cut-off ‘A’.

In fact The Bishop’s Palace at Waterford in its ‘Waterford Museum of Treasures’ has an extremely similar cup in its collection. You can see this at the following site, though you’ll need to be able to run Java properly to see the video of the cup:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-r ... ilverware/

The museum cup has a monogram which I read as ‘SK Junr’ and mine has ‘SK’ as part of its monogram. A certain Samuel King was Mayor in Waterford in 1786, 1800 and 1820 and he lived at Mt Pleasance, so it’s very likely there’s a connection here.

Thanks to all those who have helped me in my research.

scorpio
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby scorpio » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:01 pm

Thanks for the update. It's a truly brilliant find! Gives us hope that someday we may too stumble on a hidden treasure!

I still can't see the images on the Waterford Museum site despite updating Java on my computer, so infuriating. I'll have to try another machine but thanks for the photo in your email.

Gordon

Traintime
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby Traintime » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:55 pm

Think your S is in fact a P (PTK Jr.?). All letters are centered as the J needs to be offset. Probably one engraver directly copying two established personal monograms used by those individuals. Very intimate message implied.

Traintime
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Re: Who was this American silversmith? - Fleming

Postby Traintime » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:15 pm

I stand corrected. Hook under the S does appear to be just another embellishment rather than part of the letter. STK Jr. is quite acceptable conclusion.


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