Sugar Tongs (Maker?)

SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:21 pm

Here is a pic of a pair of old style, scissor-type sugar tongs:

One bow has a town mark that is apparently of Dublin, though I cannot match it well to any period:

The only other mark is on the opposite bow, which mark I would imagine would be the maker's stamp, though it appears to be as much a pictogram as it does letters. Here are a scan and a drawing of this mark:

Might anyone recognize this mark, whether maker, date, whatever? TIA!

SS
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georgiansilver · Post by **georgiansilver** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:28 pm

Although similar, I do not think it is the Dublin Harp and Crown and cannot readily identify the marks...but I can tell you that the style of these sugar nips is that of 1740-1780...and a few pairs have turned up with slightly later dates but all were marked with the standard 'lion'. There are reproductions of course, particularly in Victorian times but they were generally given the hallmarks of the day. I would suggest you get them acid tested and possibly send the photos to the Sothebys silver department for identification. Best wishes, Mike.
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SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:24 pm

Thanks, Mike, for your feedback. I did think the "crown" (if that's what it is) over the harp (if that's what it is!) seemed too small for Dublin, but the mark, though deeply struck, is fairly worn about the edges. I'd say the general wear, patina and bow warpage in these nips preclude them from being a Victorian remake, in addition to the lack of that era's marks as you mentioned. The item impresses me as correct for the mid-eighteenth century. though the hand-work appears to be a mite crude for British manufacture of that time.

SS
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Post by **admin** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:00 pm

Any chance the second mark is a sailing ship? Don't have a reference handy, but seem to recall that Cork has a similar mark.

Regards, Tom
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Post by **Granmaa** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:37 pm

The cartouche is very similar to the Cork ship, but I thought it was only used in the 17th century (please correct me if I'm wrong), and the earliest pair of sugar nips I've ever seen (of similar design) is 1730's; notice the lack of shell design hands which I think, as Mike said, came in the 40's or late 30's.

I know the Victorians liked this design, but I had thought that they tried to improve upon it, particularly by covering the central hinge as in my bottom picture.

SilverSurfer, is there an inscription on the hinge between the handles?

1730

Victorian 1860

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SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:53 pm

I have replaced the second pic (not very useful) of the mystery mark with a drawing of what I see close up (see above). I can make nothing recognizable of it. Besides the "harp" stamp, the only other mark is the monogram engraving on one flat side of the hinge, script "EAE", as shown above but not resolved due to the low resolution of the scan. Thanks to all giving it a try!

SS
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SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Sun May 21, 2006 1:38 pm

(Note: Below has been edited to correct my previous confusion over Mr. Schlosberg's remarks. Thanks to Granmaa for kicking my brain into gear!)

For those who might be interested, I had an off-forum response from a noted tea tong expert, David Schlosberg, who opined the harp stamp was indeed a Dublin Crowned Harp, presumably with the crown mis-struck and/or rubbed away, and the other mark is Hibernia. His estimate of age was c.1760. If interested in scissor-style tea tongs (not nips!), see his web site below.

http://www.SilverTeaTongs.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, thanks to all who helped with this inquiry.

SS
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Post by **Granmaa** » Sun May 21, 2006 2:38 pm

Is it possible that the unidentified mark is a poorly struck seated lady Hibernia? It seems like the most likely partner to the harped crown. I've turned the picture 90 degrees anti-clockwise and blackened the lines that looked certain. The bottom line could be the hem of her dress, and there is a harp shaped blob in the middle. What do you think?

Miles

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SilverSurfer · Post by **SilverSurfer** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:43 pm

Granmaa, you are absolutely correct, and Mr. Schlosberg had actually told me that, but I mis-read his remarks and confused in my mind the Hibernia and the Dublin stamps. Doh! I have edited my earlier post as much to credit Mr. Schlosberg's expertise as to cover my own embarrassing error (honest, trust me! ;o). Thank you for precipitating my enlightenment, your post caused me to re-check and discover my "senior moment". Thank you again for turning on the light bulb.

SS

P.S. - Alas, there is no evidence of a maker's mark.
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