Hi everyone,
I just got these spoons. As you can see they have the decoration of the Prince of Wales feathers (which are largely unique to Limerick flatware). What's got me stumped is the makers mark. Obviously from the other two marks, they have been assayed in Dublin, but the maker I.D (i think) doesn't seem to match anyone from Dublin or Limerick (from Bennett's Collecting Irish Silver and the Celebration of Limerick Silver). Is there any other resources people have?
Any thoughts?
Ben
http://j.imagehost.org/0682/Limerick_Spoons.jpg
http://j.imagehost.org/0042/Limerick_Hallmarks3.jpg
(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )
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Limerick Teaspoons? Unrecorded maker?
Hi Ben,
Although many learned scholars of Irish silver have attributed the engraving of the plume of feathers as a feature peculiar to that of Limerick, it's a thought that I have never been comfortable with, but there is no doubt that in Limerick, the design was a popular one. There are various schools of thought as to why this engraving appears on some pieces of Irish silver at this period, most popularly that many wished the Prince of Wales (the future George IV) to take over the throne at this very troubled period of Irish history, but to try and explain the extremely complex nature of the political situtation in Ireland at that time would need several chapters and a better man than me to give an account of it.
The maker, I suspect, is either Jeremiah D'Olier or John Dalrymple, both of Dublin. To be sure an inspection of the registers at the Dublin Assay Office would be required (presuming the mark was indeed registered) as a full reproduction of all the maker's marks has, to my knowledge, yet to be published.
It it would be good to hear the thoughts of others.
For more information on Jeremiah D'Olier see: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5&start=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For a example of the mark attributed to John Dalrymple see: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&start=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Regards Trev.
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Although many learned scholars of Irish silver have attributed the engraving of the plume of feathers as a feature peculiar to that of Limerick, it's a thought that I have never been comfortable with, but there is no doubt that in Limerick, the design was a popular one. There are various schools of thought as to why this engraving appears on some pieces of Irish silver at this period, most popularly that many wished the Prince of Wales (the future George IV) to take over the throne at this very troubled period of Irish history, but to try and explain the extremely complex nature of the political situtation in Ireland at that time would need several chapters and a better man than me to give an account of it.
The maker, I suspect, is either Jeremiah D'Olier or John Dalrymple, both of Dublin. To be sure an inspection of the registers at the Dublin Assay Office would be required (presuming the mark was indeed registered) as a full reproduction of all the maker's marks has, to my knowledge, yet to be published.
It it would be good to hear the thoughts of others.
For more information on Jeremiah D'Olier see: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5&start=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For a example of the mark attributed to John Dalrymple see: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 2&start=35" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Regards Trev.
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Hello Ben & Trev,
Appendix I (pages 741-51) of Jackson’s book on the Dublin Assay Office shows reproductions of their punches from 1720. The sharply cut corners of both the Hibernia and crowned harp punches which appear on these spoons occurred together only from 1793-1809.
Dalrymple’s ID mark in an oval with a pellet between the initials was probably in use from around 1789 when he became a freeman of the Dublin Company. Jackson’s page 669 mentions his death in 1823 and it is feasible his mark was in use throughout the period 1793-1809 mentioned above.
Jackson’s page 639 shows Jeremiah D’Olier had registered a mark of his own by 1768, ID in a shape of a pair of overlapping circles and without any pellet. Trev’s post on the D’Oliers indicates that Richard left the partnership with Jeremiah in 1780 and also shows the ID mark with a pellet which had the unusual rounded right side was probably the one used by Isaac D’Olier & Son until 1779. The balance of probabilities seems to be that any of Jeremiah’s work in the period 1793-1804 when he said he was out of silversmithing would have carried the mark in use in 1768.
From all this the spoonmaker seems to me to be Dalrymple.
Regards,
Mike
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Appendix I (pages 741-51) of Jackson’s book on the Dublin Assay Office shows reproductions of their punches from 1720. The sharply cut corners of both the Hibernia and crowned harp punches which appear on these spoons occurred together only from 1793-1809.
Dalrymple’s ID mark in an oval with a pellet between the initials was probably in use from around 1789 when he became a freeman of the Dublin Company. Jackson’s page 669 mentions his death in 1823 and it is feasible his mark was in use throughout the period 1793-1809 mentioned above.
Jackson’s page 639 shows Jeremiah D’Olier had registered a mark of his own by 1768, ID in a shape of a pair of overlapping circles and without any pellet. Trev’s post on the D’Oliers indicates that Richard left the partnership with Jeremiah in 1780 and also shows the ID mark with a pellet which had the unusual rounded right side was probably the one used by Isaac D’Olier & Son until 1779. The balance of probabilities seems to be that any of Jeremiah’s work in the period 1793-1804 when he said he was out of silversmithing would have carried the mark in use in 1768.
From all this the spoonmaker seems to me to be Dalrymple.
Regards,
Mike
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