Channel Islands?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
paulh
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Channel Islands?

Postby paulh » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:36 pm

These are three matching bright cut spoons, which I thought were Channel Islands. One spoon is marked differently to the other two. The odd one having a bird with a fish in its beak , with a capital ‘D’ in a shield and an indistinguishable mark. The other two have ‘PD’ in a trefoil about a 5 point star and yet another indistinguishable mark. All three spoons have an incuse engraved I*B and are all identical in the pattern.

I cannot find any trace of these marks in the Channel Islands, as I thought I might, so I am now searching further afield. They all seem to have the look and style of spoons with origins not too far from England, but so far any similar marks which I can find put them in places which don’t seem quite right.

Any suggestions welcome.

Paul.

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dognose
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby dognose » Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:51 pm

Hi Paul,

Just an absolute hunch, nothing more, but the marks remind of those of Switzerland.

If nothing positive comes up over the next few days, remind me, and I'll move your post to the 'Other Countries' forum to see if we have any joy there.

Trev.

paulh
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Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Channel Islands?

Postby paulh » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Hello Trev,
Switzerland was one place my search took me, but they just looked so 'British', that I had doubts. The bird with a fish does occur in Switzerland. Maybe it is a red herring!

Paul.

joho
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby joho » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:56 pm

Hi there - can I suggest this be moved to the Dutch marks section. The stork with a fish in its mouth looks like the town mark for 'S Gravenhage. Regards John

dognose
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby dognose » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:20 pm

Hi John,

We'll give it a try.

Trev.

oel
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby oel » Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:59 pm

Hi All,

Yes, John is right, the stork for‘s-Gravenhage in an uncrowned shield, indicating 2nd standard or ‘kleine keur’ for 833/1000 fineness, date letter D uncrowned for 1799. The maker’s mark AD conjoined for: Adriaan P. Dingemans 1765-1811.
Adriaan has used three maker’s marks; AD, AD conjoined and APD, known flatware & cutlery maker.

Regarding the other two marks could you try to capture some more enhanced clear images.

Oel.

paulh
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Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Channel Islands?

Postby paulh » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:08 am

Thanks for the information. Netherlands does make sense, taking into account the style. Here is a clearer picture of the marks on the other two spoons. There is a Swiss maker’s mark which matches this one, but that does not tie in with the other spoon being Dutch.

Image

oel
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby oel » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:06 pm

Hi Paul,

The maker’s mark; P.D above 5 pointed star in a trefoil, I believe not to be a Dutch maker’s mark, also the absence of a date letter makes it more unlikely to be Dutch.
The city mark does not appear to be Dutch and could be for the city of Zofingen in Switzerland during the 18th century.
‘s-Gravenhage or The Hague being the seat of government in the Netherlands, today and during the French occupation or Napoleonic era; Batavian republic (1795-1806), followed by the Kingdom of Holland 1806-1810 and being part of the French Empire till 1814. The Hague attracted many diplomats and foreign residents. In short the cutlery set originally could have been made abroad and the spoon made in The Hague being a replacement.


Oel.

bstaunto
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby bstaunto » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:34 am

Hi guys,

It looks like the maker's mark for Papus and Dautun (Lausanne, Switzerland) and the other mark, although not clear, does look like it could be the mark often used on Lausanne silver (the city crest).

Image
(Ref: L'argenterie lausannoise des XVIII et XIX siecles, Christian Hörack)

Cheers, Ben.

oel
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby oel » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:57 am

Hi Ben,

Spot on!


Best,

Oel.

dognose
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Re: Channel Islands?

Postby dognose » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:38 am

For a clear example of the actual mark, see Theo's reply at: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2299&p=77849

Trev.


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