Need help pinpointing date on dutch silver wedding spoon

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Need help pinpointing date on dutch silver wedding spoon

Postby lmh33 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:09 pm

Hi This is my firt post so I hope I did everyting correct. I have this silver Dutch marriage spoon with what appears to be conflicting marks. On the front of the spoon is the dolphin mark in a triangle cartouche. On the back is an O with a crown above and what appears to be the makers mark IR.
I followed the link from this site to the dutch makers mark site and found what I think is the o with a crown above. This site is in dutch but it appears to date this mark to before 1810. The makers mark IR which matches the one on this spoon belongs to Jan Rienstra. Futher research on his name states that he died in 1832.
Could it be that the dolphin mark was used earlier than 1853 or is my other research off the mark. Thanks in advance for any help

Image
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lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Postby lmh33 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:14 pm

The pictures of the makers mark may be to small to see so I am adding a link http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... on0011.jpg
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:10 am

Hi,

The crowned O is a tax mark and was struck in 1807 on old items. The dolphin (also tax mark) was struck between 1893 and 1906 on items that were un-assayed. The crowned O was not an assay mark, so the spoon was regarded as not assayed when it - apparently - returned on the marked around 1900.

Hope that helped a bit.
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lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Postby lmh33 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:05 am

Doos, thanks for the help. I am new at this so I want to be sure I understand. The crowned O would mean that this spoon is earlier than 1807 and the dolphin mark was added later.
Should there be other marks on this spoon or was is typical to only have a makers mark. Thanks again
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:50 am

Hi,

Yes you understood correct.
The marks were also struck on foreign objects and items that were not of the required fineness, so although one would suspect a town mark and a dateletter on the item that was not always the case.
There are many other reasons why an item is not fully struck.

Is there any text engraved on the bowl of the spoon?
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lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Postby lmh33 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:35 pm

Hi Doos,
There is engraving around the back of the spoon. It is in dutch and a lot of it is worn. Here is some pictures
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... 0007-1.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... 0011-1.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll24 ... 0008-1.jpg
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lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Postby lmh33 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:55 am

I think I can make out some of the words in the engraving. One line seams to read liukke douwes is geboaren DE the rest is worn off around the top of the spoon then on the other side of the spoon is continues (it looks like january but the first could of letter is worn) j 755 tot oostenemo.
Then the line underneath starts with j 822 ???? december 22 is gebonen Feetji L?lkes wids???.
More engraving around the crowned O. Mostly worn I can make out j 803? I hope some of this makes sense to you. I was able to translate some of the words on google: oostenemo = east nemo. I can not figure out the number with the letter j in front of them. Thanks again for all your help.
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Doos
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Postby Doos » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:09 pm

Hi,

Sounds like it is a spoon with multiple birth engravings from Friesland ("Douwes" is a typical Frisian family name).
"geboaren" means "born".
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lmh33
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:32 pm
Location: Tar heel state

Postby lmh33 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:49 pm

Hi, I still have a question regarding the possible date of this spoon. There appears to be three different dates on the spoon. 1755, 1822, and 1808. Was it common to add engravings to items for each birth?
If that is the case, could I be safe in assuming that the spoon was made around 1755 and the other dates were added later?. I must say that I have had a grand time researching the engravings on this spoon. I only wish I could find the records of the names. Maybe some day. Thanks again for sharing you knowledge.
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hurkonides
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:01 am

Re: Need help pinpointing date on dutch silver wedding spoon

Postby hurkonides » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:04 am

Hi

The oldest text must have been:

Siukke Douwes is gebooren den [27] januari 1755 tot Oosterend.

This lady was born in Oosterend Friesland and baptized there at Februari 9 1755. She was the daughter of Douwes Sjoerds and Janke Jans. She died Februari 27 1823 at the age of 68.

Hessel de Walle

hurkonides
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Re: Need help pinpointing date on dutch silver wedding spoon

Postby hurkonides » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:34 am

The second inscription must have been something like

1822 den 18 december is geboren Teetje Lolkes Wytsma

daughter of Lolke Annes Wytsma and Pietertje Franses Schuringa, born somewhere close to the town of Makkum

Hessel


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