Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Emmajayne1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Emmajayne1 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:21 pm

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Hi, I could use some help with this silver tray please.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

It's obviously Birmingham 1913, but the makers mark I find strange. Stylistically it appears to be Henry Matthews, but it appears that the makers marks may have been purposely removed? I can't see that this was done by polishing alone as the other marks are still crisp. There is an additional tiny mark that I've not come across before, best described as 4 overlapping circles with a number 3 in the centre. Does anyone have any advice on the significance? Many thanks in advance.

dognose
Site Admin
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Location: England

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby dognose » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:56 pm

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please post some larger viewable images.

Trev.

Emmajayne1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Emmajayne1 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:39 am

Hoping these are better?

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Emmajayne1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Emmajayne1 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:16 pm

Please can you confirm if these images are ok? Thanks

oel
co-admin
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby oel » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:37 am

To me images look OK but I have no answers

Best,

Oel.

Emmajayne1
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Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Emmajayne1 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:10 pm

Thanks, anywhere else I should try to identify the odd mark? Em

AG2012
contributor
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Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby AG2012 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:02 am

Hi,
Maker`s mark is really poorly struck, not removed on purpose.Positive identification is not possible based on the images, unless you can identify both letters with 10X loupe.
Small mark could be JOURNEYMAN mark, no reference to support it, though.
Regards

Emmajayne1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Emmajayne1 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Thanks for the reply. Is it standard that badly struck marks were deemed acceptable? You'd almost expect the silversmith to request it be redone!

Reading about journeymen with interest, many thanks.

AG2012
contributor
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby AG2012 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 am

Hi,
Badly struck marks just happened and can be seen on many pieces. Collecting duty on silver was more important than perfectly struck marks.
Regards

Cuznerfan
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: Birmingham Tray - Help Needed

Postby Cuznerfan » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Hello Emmajayne1
It was not unusual for the manufacturer to stamp the maker's mark onto a piece prior to sending the item in for hallmarking which is why we often see poorly marked maker's marks next to crisp hallmarks. Also (ref the previous reply) duty was not collected by the Assay offices on silver at the time your tray was manufactured. As for the number '3' punch this manufacturer may have had at least 3 members of staff punching these type of trays they may have been on piece work i.e. charging per piece made and so this denotes which member of staff was responsible for this tray. Hope this helps Craig


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