Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
gemspring
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:59 pm

Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby gemspring » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:36 pm

Hi,

I've done a lot of research to positively identify this piece; a large sterling silver tankard made in London.

The date mark is a lowercase 'd' in a simple shield, which would suggest either 1779 or 1819; those marks are so similar, its hard to tell. The style of the "WC" initial mark (and the design and craftsmanship of the piece) suggest William Cripps (1731-1767) but the dates don't line up. I guess it could be William Cattell, with a likely date of 1779 but I would very much respect and appreciate the opinions of forum members who might know better.

Thank you!

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dognose
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Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby dognose » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:00 pm

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Identifying the maker will be problematic, but hopefully only in the short-term, as the maker's mark has been overstruck by 'WC':

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However, as the cartouche surrounding the original mark is so distinctive, an answer will likely come to light.

Trev.

silvermakersmarks
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Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby silvermakersmarks » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:01 pm

Before I start thinking about the maker I can confirm that the date has to be 1779 because there is no duty mark.

Phil

gemspring
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Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby gemspring » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks, Trev and Phil...

Yes, I was wondering about the extra edge seen around the WC mark. I'll have to pore over other makers' marks to see if I can find a cartouche that matches.

Why do you think a mark would be overstruck in this manner?

Thanks very much!

silvermakersmarks
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Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby silvermakersmarks » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:41 am

I have not been able to find a mark which matches the profile of the underlying mark. I note that there seems to be another C under there. I think that William Cattell is the most likely to be WC.

As far as the reason for overstamping goes there may be several explanations. Perhaps WC was mainly a retailer but wanted his customers to have a more personalised experience. Perhaps it was old stock from a failed maker. Maybe the actual maker was not registered and sold his wares to someone who was able to get the assaying done.

Phil

gemspring
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:59 pm

Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby gemspring » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:23 pm

Thanks, Phil.

Ok, that makes sense. As to the original maker, I am partway through searching a large database of possible marks. If I figure it out, I'll post it here for reference. I do appreciate your help.

Aguest
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Re: Large Georgian silver Tankard - W.C.

Postby Aguest » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:36 am

I posted a sterling silver sugar shaker (aka muffineer) a few years ago with a date mark for 1780 with overstruck marks ::
Here is what The Buckler wrote concerning over-struck marks :

"Re overstriking.


I believe that an overstrike is entirely legal if done BEFORE assay , as basically the overstriker would then be the responsible sponsor of the item for assay . If done after ASSAY then I think an overstrike would be an offence , as if any query arose then the original sponsor might not be identifiable."


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