Opinion on maker of candlesticks

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juantotree
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Opinion on maker of candlesticks

Postby juantotree » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:49 am

Hi

I would welcome any opinions on the maker of a pair of candlesticks, one of which is shown in the images below. They are hallmarked for London 1759 with the makers mark IS over IB. This mark is without pellets, the closest I can find in Grimwade is for James Stamp & John Baker, however this mark is with pellets and was enterd in 1764, could this be an earlier unrecorded mark of this partnership? The only other visual match is that of James Sutton & James Bult, but this is registered as being enterd in 1782.

Many Thanks
Martin

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silvermakersmarks
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Re: Opinion on maker of candlesticks

Postby silvermakersmarks » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:08 am

This may never be identified with any certainty, but I feel that it is unlikely to be a mark of the partnership of James Stamp and John Baker as it seems likely that the 1764 registration marked the start of their partnership, missing registers notwithstanding. In particular James Stamp gained his freedom of the Goldsmiths Company on 2 May 1764 with the partnership mark being registered on 18 May 1764.

I did wonder whether the date letter is actually the "O" for 1769 as the lower parts of both D and O are very similar, but close inspection convinces me that 1759 is the correct identification.

Phil

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Re: Opinion on maker of candlesticks

Postby Aguest » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:21 pm

James Sutton & James Bult would be too late because they registered in 1782?

Such a similar hallmark to the above example, but it must not be right if, in fact, they registered in 1782?

juantotree
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Re: Opinion on maker of candlesticks

Postby juantotree » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:18 am

Thank you both for your observations.

Martin

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Re: Opinion on maker of candlesticks

Postby buckler » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:31 pm

I think it is almost certain to be the mark of James Stamp and John Baker - despite it being prior to registration . These things happened in the less well regulated 18th century !
From the will of James Stamp it is clear that the two partners were related, probably cousins.

The facts
John Baker was apprenticed 3 July 1740 to Theophilis Spendelowe
He was free in 1747, so may well have had marks in the lost smallworkers register prior to 1756.

James Stamp was free of the Goldsmiths by redemption in 1764 , so could well have had a career in another trade prior to 1764– we cannot assume that he was younger than Baker. Indeed as the senior partner he was probably the elder.

My theory
James Stamp and John Baker formed a partnership some time in 1760 (the date letter covers 1759 /60), taking over the sole tradership of John Baker . Goldsmiths Hall were accustomed to receiving items for assay from John Baker and did not notice that their goods were now stamped IS/IB .
The partners belatedly registered the joint mark in 1764

The partnership did not last long - dissolved around 1770
James Stamp was made a Liveryman in late 1771, only 7 years from his freedom, so was probably of both mature years and greatly respected.


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