Help with Marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
baibendean
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:36 am
Location: Alstonville

Help with Marks

Postby baibendean » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:35 pm

These marks are from a batton that my great grandfather was presented with in 1898 in Armidale, Australia. He was a band leader for the Caledonian Society. I have included two photos of the hall marks as one shows the maker's mark more clearly. The marks are very small which makes it very difficult to get clear photos. Could anyone help with the maker, location & date? Each section of the batton (top, centre & bottom) have the same marks. The marks, in the photos, are from the centre section of the batton. The date mark is a U.
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Alain
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Belgium

Postby Alain » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:45 am

Hello baibendean,

Welcome to the forum!

Your great grandfather 's batton was made in London in 1895.
Not shure about the maker's mark.Is it A J C ?

Regards,

Alain
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baibendean
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:36 am
Location: Alstonville

Postby baibendean » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:55 am

HI Alain

Thanks very much for the answer. You are awesome. Could I ask how you knew that?

Thanks again

Rod
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Alain
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Belgium

Postby Alain » Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:57 am

Hello Rod,

I can see this batton was made in London because the mark between the Lion and the year mark "U", is the uncrowned Leopard's head.
The uncrowned Leopard's head was first introduced in 1822.


Here's a link to the London year marks :

http://www.925-1000.com/dlLondon.html

If this batton was made for example in Birmingham, there should be an anchor, and not a Leopard's head.

Is the maker's mark A J C ? I can't see it very well in your picture.

Regards,

Alain
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baibendean
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:36 am
Location: Alstonville

Postby baibendean » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Thanks Alain - I looked through all the marks on the web site and couldn't tell what the "city" mark was as it's been a bit worn.
Thanks again. Yes - the maker's mark is easy to read.
The makers mark is AJC. Have you heard of them?

Rod
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Alain
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Belgium

Postby Alain » Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:41 am

Hi Rod,

I don't know the maker of this batton .
From the picture it looks like a very good quality item.
Don't give up hope, it's very likely another forum member will tell you who the maker of your batton is!

Regards,

Alain
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MCB
moderator
Posts: 2134
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: UK

Postby MCB » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:31 am

Hello Rod,

John Culme's directory of London marks shows AJC was registered in 1894 by Arthur John Croker of Bermondsey, London.

Mike
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dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 40339
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Postby dognose » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:08 am

Hi,

Croker appears to have been a specialist maker connected to the music industry. He is curiously listed as a 'Violin chin rest maker', that's a first for me!

Trev.
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Miss Ray
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:24 am
Location: London

Arthur John Croker

Postby Miss Ray » Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:11 am

Hello Rod

Although A.J. Croker entered a maker's mark at the London Assay Office for use on articles of gold and silver he may not have been an actual worker in precious metals except, perhaps, in a very small way. Culme suggests as much by describing him as a violin chin rest maker. This means that either Croker made his own mounts, which to judge from this present example would have been fairly easy for a competent craftsman working in various materials, or he ordered his mounts from another workshop.

It is well to remember that the appearance of his so-called maker's mark on pieces infers no more than he took responsibility that the silver (or gold) struck with that mark to be submitted to the Assay Office was of the correct fineness.

For what it's worth, it does seem likely in this case that Croker was the actual maker of this piece, including the mount, because he was clearly in a small way of business. At the time he was living there in the 1890s Bermondsey was a somewhat depressed part of London and he may have been working from home, perhaps in part of a multi-occupancy house or even a garden shed.

It would be interesting to know how Croker marketed the objects he made. Did he, for instance, supply a single retailer or a number of them; and which retailers might they have been? Given his stated trade and that he made batons as well, the answer might very well be found in trade papers connected with the musical instrument business rather than those for goldsmiths, silversmiths and jewellers.

Miss Ray
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