Silver salt cellar

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
madej
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Silver salt cellar

Postby madej » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:15 pm

Hi.
Who is the silversmith? Can it be Timofei Nikolayevich Nikolayev (1874-1895) ?
For better qualitty click on the image.
Regards

Image
Image
Image

(admin photo edit)

AG2012
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Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby AG2012 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:47 pm

Hi,
This T.H was attributed to Тимофей Хескес (Timofey Heskes).
(Timothy Hesketh in PL 1865).
Regards
Image

Goldstein
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Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Hi -
I think it is Timofei Nikolajev N., 1874-1895, St. Petersburg...

Image
Image

The cartouche and the dot do not fit - townmark is St. Petersburg....

Image

Who is it?

Regards
Goldstein

madej
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby madej » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:08 pm

Hi Ag2012
Hi Goldstein
Thanks.
Postnikova writes that Heskes died in 1883 and the plant was founded in 1805? The dates do not match very well. How old was he when he started his business? Ag2012 those marks you showed are probably the same, there probably was a dot there.
Goldstein the fact that there is no period on the sign of Timofei Nikolayevich does not exclude that he, right?
Regards

Goldstein
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Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:18 pm

Hi madej -

the townmark on the salts is as far as I can see (the reason why photos from the marks should be bigger and clearer) from St. Petersburg. Heskes is from Moscow.
Effery detail is important: form of the cartouche, font, dot or no dot etc.

It is still a riddle...

Regards
Goldstein

madej
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby madej » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:06 pm

The mark on my salt cellar is Saint Petersburg. Haskes was active in St. Petersburg but the years described by Postnikova do not agree too much. Maybe I do not understand everything because of my poor English.
Regards

Goldstein
contributor
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:04 pm

Hi madej -

My mistake! T. Hesketh (Heskes) worked in St. Petersburg.

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:51 am

FYI!
The maker is under no circumstances Hesketh!
Timothy Hesketh was born in England 1775. He became master in St. Petersburg 1805 and died in February 3. 1833. The hallmark on the object has notches up and down. That dates it to 1882-1898/99. There we have Timofei Nikolayevich Nikolayev 1874-1895.
There is a typo in Postnikova regarding #1865, the year 1883 should read 1833.

Goldstein
contributor
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Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Goldstein » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:19 am

Hi -

another example from hin:

Image
Image

Regards
Goldstein

AG2012
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Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby AG2012 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:46 am

Hi,
It seems typos and mistakes are sometimes repeated and eventually they become truth, unless obviously contradictory.
This is from Skurlov:
ХЕСКЕС Тимофей, (ум. в 1883 г.), СДМ, цеховой в СПб с 1805 г. Постникова—Лосева: клейма № 1865.


(Heskes died in 1883, and entered the SPB guild in 1805).

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2919
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:14 am

@AG2012
Well unfortunately you are so right, but take a closer look at the years and calculate then it becomes obvious that something is wrong. That is what madej also noticed.
As you said, when a copy is copied from an incorrect original and the incorrect copy is copied again and again, here is the result.
Once again: Hesketh was born in 1775, became master 1805 and died 1883! That means that he worked for 78 years and died 108 years old! That is an impossible equation! However, he actually died in 1833 and now it makes sense! Sometimes is worth to calculate...:-))))

Yes he joined St. Petersburg foreign guild in 1805. By the way, the same error is found in Ivanov Vol II #4541, 1883 instead of 1833. One should correct it too alongside with Postnikova's error.

madej
Posts: 396
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Re: Silver salt cellar

Postby madej » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:55 pm

Hi.
Thank you all.
Regards


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