RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
niceguy1
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RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby niceguy1 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:57 pm

HI

Who is the maker of this Russian silver spoon? It’s of good quality solid silver.

Thanks for looking.

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Qrt.S
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:46 pm

Not sure, but he could be Nikolay Yegorovich Gratchev (not that Gratchev (brothers)) active in Moscow in early 1900. The spoon is made after 1908.

Goldstein
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Goldstein » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:55 am

Hi niceguy1 -

maker is Nikolai Gratschev - not to confuse with the famous firm "Gratschev Brothers", a court supplier. Gratschev is a quite common name in Russia!
His spoons stand out due to their unusual, "untypical" Russian design and the mostly existing Art Deco engraving.

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Regards
Goldstein

niceguy1
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby niceguy1 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:27 pm

Thanks to both for the help.

Qrt.S
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:48 am

The engraving has nothing to do with Art deco. It is too early. As already mentioned in another thread the art deco era is between WW1 and WW2

Goldstein
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:46 am

Hi -
Unfortunately, the world is not black and white - there are innumerable nuances!
Art Deco and Art Nouveau were not created overnight - but have developed differently in different countries. The time before and after the First World War had a great influence on the formation / development and expression - politically and artistically!

Here is a small selection from the years 1908-17 in Russia - I can show countless examples ...

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Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:03 am

Hi -
just to remember:

the 9th Moscow Artel (1910-16) worked only in art nouveau and traditional style (tea-strainers, sugar tongs, spoons).

The 2nd, 5th, 11th, 13th, 14th and 15th Artel worked also only in art nouveau style.

Maybe you should change your mind based on the facts.....

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:49 am

Goldstein wrote:Hi -
just to remember:

the 9th Moscow Artel (1910-16) worked only in art nouveau and traditional style (tea-strainers, sugar tongs, spoons).

The 2nd, 5th, 11th, 13th, 14th and 15th Artel worked also only in art nouveau style.

Maybe you should change your mind based on the facts.....

Regards
Goldstein


NO, I have no intention whatsoever to change my mind. You should learn the styles. Look what you wrote above. I have enlarged some of your words. Now try to understand we are talking about Art Deco, an abbreviation of Art Decorative. Unfortunately you are talking about something that is in France called Art Nouveau, in England Arts and Crafts also Morris style. Maybe I have to say it in German:

In Deutschland heißt Art Nouveau Jugend und hat nicht viel zu tun mit Art Deco . Der Jugendstil entstand im späten 19. Jahrhundert und endet mit dem 1. Weltkrieg. Der Jugendstil wird von 1920 bis etwa 1940 mit Art Deco begleitet. Verstehst du jetzt, dass du die Stilen mischst? oder was ist denn los mit dir?

Goldstein
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:54 am

Hi -

The different styles were fluid and linked to national preferences / traditions in each country. It is not always easy to see a clear demarcation or distinction - as I said: the transition was fluid because it was an national development within Europe. Each country involved used their own stylistic devices. More or less a development.
Art nouveau in Riga looked different than Art Nouveau in Munich or Vienna. If interested: there is plenty of first - class literature on the subject - not to mention the really great museums around the world.
If you dive deeper into the matter you will find that it is not as easy as you describe it here .....
If you want to discuss endless - OK - but without me. I know your point of view - you know mine. That´s it.

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:05 am

Unbelievable stubbornness.
For the last time: We are talking about Art Deco and not Jugend/Art Nouveau

Qrt.S
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Re: RUSSIAN SILVER SPOON

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:08 pm

@Goldstein
Completely forgot to say that if you refer to the engravings on the spoons, they have nothing to do with the style because the style is found in an object's shape and/form not in simple engravings. By the way, the spoons from left; a shape copied from the renaissance and the rest copies of spoon models from the 18th century with a baluster stem. No big deal, quite ordinary spoons and far from art deco style, not to talk about art nouveau. However, since you are not showing the marks, it might be that the baluster spoons are from their era, but the engravings are made in the beginning of the 20th century when such engravings were very popular.


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