butter dish with foggy marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
dixie1019
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:19 pm

butter dish with foggy marks

Postby dixie1019 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:26 pm

hi-
i would love to buy this Russian butter dish but the marks look a bit fuzzy &, from your column, understand that their are a lot of faked stamps.... it is 5.25" tall & 6.25" wide. 863 gm.
thanks!

Image

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 40314
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby dognose » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:36 pm

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your question cannot be answered without the required images.

The below should help you:

How to Add Images

Posting Requirements

https://postimages.org (copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended.

Ensure your images are embedded. Do not post links. Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

For more information see:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37974&p=103282#p103282

Give some time to creating your posts and we'll give some time to researching and answering them.

Trev.

Goldstein
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby Goldstein » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:22 pm

Hi dixie1019 -

I posted your photos:

Image
Image
Image

I is a brandnew made fake - using a traditional object.
All the marks are fakes also.

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Posts: 3023
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby Qrt.S » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:56 am

@dixie1019
If I were you, I wouldn't buy it for any reason but just forget it.
However, to still my curiosity, would you mind tell us what are the Cyrillic initials in the kokoshnik. Your photo is too blurred to tell it.

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3629
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby AG2012 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:08 am

Hi,
Faked marks for sure as suggested above, and not a dangerous fake,too obvious.
On the other hand,this object is not easy to make and they probably used already existing butter dish to apply faked marks.
If in your hands, have it tested for silver fineness, probably it`s not solid silver at all.
Regards

Dad
contributor
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby Dad » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:21 pm

Hi

Punches looks like original (from this foto). Mikhail Ovchinnikov, St.-Petersburg. 1899-1908.
But. Will better, if you could made new fotos of hallmarks.

Best Reg..

dixie1019
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:19 pm

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby dixie1019 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:52 pm

dognose wrote:Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your question cannot be answered without the required images.

The below should help you:

How to Add Images

Posting Requirements

https://postimages.org (copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended.

Ensure your images are embedded. Do not post links. Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

For more information see:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37974&p=103282#p103282

Give some time to creating your posts and we'll give some time to researching and answering them.

Trev.


hey, Trev,

so sorry about the images--- it took me some time to figure it out.

image on the item's maker mark:

[imgImage][/img]


image on maker's mark hallmark site:


[imgImage][/img]

image on hallmark site of eagle:


[imgImage][/img]



koloshnik image on item on left:

[imgImage][/img]

& from internet site :

Image

i am way new to looking at hallmarks but is the telltale sign the fact that the stamp from the internet shows letters that look like little fat/thick sausages, stuffed snuggly into a sausage casing but that the letters on the image for sale are narrow & at uneven heights? also, as a newbie, would guess that the royal eagle image on the item looks as tho it was marinated for a few hours and then baked at 500 C for the day? & is the koloshnik stamp just too imprecise of a face & should it include the number "84?"?? it was just TOO much fun playing hallmark detective... merci beaucoup to "Dad," "AG2012," "Qrt.S," "Goldstein" (& for posting the original photos!), & "dognose"....

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3629
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby AG2012 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:16 am

Hello again,
I still think the marks are faked.
Uneven and distorted lettering executed by someone who is not familiar with Cyrillic alphabet but was relying only on visual perception.
Caricature of imperial eagle.
Regards

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1222
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: butter dish with foggy marks

Postby Goldstein » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:29 am

Hi dixie1019 -

Image

You can bet that this firm had sharp punches and knew how to use them. No two tries were necessary to place a punch.....

As already said: a clumsy attempt to "upgrade" an existing (English?) butter dish. By the way- in over 40 years of collecting Russian silver -I never have seen a Russian butter dish!

Regards
Goldstein


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