Help identifying city marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
emilgaigns
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:32 am

Help identifying city marks

Postby emilgaigns » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:14 pm

Hi. I would need some help with some hallmarks . I can't figure which town was made. Thanks in advance!


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Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby Goldstein » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 pm

Hi emilgaigns -

grotesque phantasy marks on a newly made fake!

Regards
Goldstein

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3270
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby AG2012 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Hi,
I think the marks are faked.
This is what I think.Let`s wait for more responses.
Regards

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3270
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby AG2012 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:42 pm

Marks are completely wrong but I suppose you expect an explanation.
Imperial warrant eagle is a caricature.
There was no AC in an oval with warrant of appointment
There was AC assayer in Moscow but about two decades earlier.
1894 and 84 zolotniki number are visually imitated and look rather grotesque.
City mark is pure fantasy.
We are really benevolent here but it seems people persist in buying Russian silver without elementary knowledge of the marks and ``how it`s made``.
You are welcome to ask before you spend money on fakes.

emilgaigns
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:32 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby emilgaigns » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:49 pm

Thank you very much for your help. I’m not an russian exper, I’m novice but I try to “steal” some knowleadge from you guys. I’m learning each day more and maybe some day I’ll de able to help other around here.
Again, thank you guys for all your benevolt help here.

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2742
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:39 am

In less than a second you can see that it is a fake. In addition to what has been said already, the fineness mark, 84, should have notches up and down as from 1882. There are no on your plate dated 1894. Since you mention being a novice, please read this site carefully and memorize it:
http://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:12 am

Hi emilgaigns -

A small comparison: if you want to create a collection of oil paintings as an ignorant beginner, you do not start with a Rembrand! But here you would get an enamel plate from the best enamel artist of Russia (MC) Maria Semenova - in top condition and at a fraction of the actual value. Of course a fake! Of course originals are out of your reach!!
Is it stupidity, ignorance, greed or just total ignorance that drives you?

Start with cheap spoons and try to learn the "secrets" of Russian silver - this includes hard work, extensive literature and lively exchange with other collectors. Nevertheless, you will not be spared disappointments - however, the financial losses are bearable and can be regarded as apprenticeship.
Start slow and learn quick!
The forum with its excellent members will always be at your side - but without initiative the project is pointless.
I wish you success!

Regards
Goldstein

emilgaigns
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:32 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby emilgaigns » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:54 am

Hi.
For this item i was about 99% sure it was fake but I asked maybe that was a city mark I haven’t seen before.
It’s not greed, nor ignorance or stupidity. I’m just trying to learn as much as I can about Russian silver and enameled silver. Bought a few marks books, read them, but my problem is that I don’t have anyone around me with good knowleadge in russian marks/enamel that I can ask now and then a few things, so forums are my only option for now. And just reading books, without some second opinions is not much at all.
I haven’t bought any items that I had posted here. I had doubts about the originality of the items and this is why I posted, if I would be greedy , ignorant or stupid, be sure I would have bought them already. Some of the pieces I posted were sold by reputable art dealers who were also tricked by this fakes.
If my posts creates any harm for you, and I am sorry if that happens, the simplest thing would be to ignore them.

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3270
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby AG2012 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:11 am

Hello again,
Feel free to ask and we`ll be happy to help within our powers.It`s always a pleasure to see new items on the forum as a new challenge.
Sometimes it`s easy to judge, especially with fakes of prominent silversmiths having in mind ``how it`s made``.For example, Faberge was known to have inspected every detail on newly manufactured item and smashed it with a hammer if not fully satisfied.Meaning, his workshop produced only flawless items.
As already mentioned by Goldstein, there is a lot of nice silver around to start with.
Regards

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:11 am

Hi emilgaigns -

do you know that there is a very informative section "Rusian marks" on this forum?

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Take a look at the many basic informations that can be found there that will answer most of your questions! A lot of knowing members invested their time to provide an overview.
Compare the marks you will find there and the marks on your "treasures"...

emilgaigns wrote:Some of the pieces I posted were sold by reputable art dealers who were also tricked by this fakes.


A reputable art dealer is seldom tricked - if he is reputable! Believe only what you see and what you know!

By the way: your posts creates no harm for me - only a sort of compassion and incomprehension....

Regards
Goldstein

emilgaigns
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:32 am

Re: Help identifying city marks

Postby emilgaigns » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:36 am

I always check those sections. My other questions were more to know about specifics things to look when seeing russian silver marks and not beeing fooled by very good visual fakes.
Here was a city mark that I never seen, even after looking on the russian section in all pages.


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