Russian box

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
amena
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Russian box

Postby amena » Wed May 16, 2018 10:06 am

I saw this ad on the Internet and it seems to me that there is a contradiction of dates
.......... box with cockerel handles, mark of Pavel Ovchinnikov (1830-1888) beneath the imperial warrants, Moscow, Russia, 1908-1917
Image
Image
Besides this, there is something that sounds out of tune to me, even if I can not say exactly what.
I do not know much about Russian silver and I would like to know the opinion of some expert just to learn something. In any case, genuine or fake, I'm not interested in buying the item.
Thanks for attention
Amena

Goldstein
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Re: Russian box

Postby Goldstein » Wed May 16, 2018 4:47 pm

Hi amena -

Russian enamel works were known for their high quality (creativity and craftsmanship) world-wide - some of the manufacturers - just to name two, gained wide fame (Ovtschinnikov, Rückert etc.).
Failed and absurd designs in clumsy technology make it very easy to see the difference. Fancy marks complete the picture.
An insult to the eye!

Regards
Goldstein

amena
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Russian box

Postby amena » Thu May 17, 2018 8:37 am

Hi Goldstein
your opinion cheers me up, there is someone else who thinks that this object is not noteworthy.
I asked someone's opinion, because I did not realize how someone had already offered a huge amount of money for this box that I would not buy even for a tenth of that amount.
But I suspect that the bidder is a partner of the seller.
Best
Amena

AG2012
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Re: Russian box

Postby AG2012 » Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am

Hi,
Online internet auctions lack common sense because one relies on anonymous sellers expertise.Besides, one does not have the item in his hands.
This fake is not dangerous because it`s too obvious but there must be profit in this trade and naive buyers.
Regards

amena
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Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:42 am

Re: Russian box

Postby amena » Fri May 18, 2018 3:44 am

Excuse me if I'm pushy, but I'm just trying to learn.
I found the photo of this box among Sotheby's auction results, also attributed to Ovchinnikov. There is no photo of the hallmark, but, given the name of the auction house, one should assume that the attribution is correct.
Image
Now I see well the differences between the latter and the first box, but I would not be willing to spend a crazy sum of money even for this one.
In your opinion, is this genuine?
Thanks for attention.
Amena

Goldstein
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Re: Russian box

Postby Goldstein » Fri May 18, 2018 5:05 am

Hi amena -

we all live in the same world with the same rules and habits....

Pecunia non olet ("money does not stink") is a Latin phrase.

The phrase goes back to the Roman Emperor Vespasian. In ancient Rome, urine, in particular "fouled", from which alkaline ammonia forms, was used as a means of leather tanning and laundry cleaning. For example, amphora-type latrines were set up on busy streets in Rome to collect the urine needed by the tanners and scrubbers.

To fill the empty coffers, Emperor Vespasian levied a special latrine tax on these public toilets. Suetonus states that Vespasian justified the tax before his son Titus by holding money from the first revenue under his nose and asked if the smell disturbs him (sciscitans num odore offenderetur). When he said no, Vespasian said: Atqui e lotio est ("And yet it's from urine"). Over time, it became the idiom Pecunia non olet, "money does not stink".

The phrase has held to this day to justify the possession or purchase of money from unclean sources of revenue.

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian box

Postby Qrt.S » Fri May 18, 2018 12:51 pm

Dear Amena,

Unfortunately a well known auction house is no guarantee for a correct attribution. Their target is only to sell to highest price. A well known pseudo here once stated: "Only believe in your own eyes, knowledge and experience." That is a statement worth to keep in mind.


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