cigarette case

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
madej
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:46 pm

cigarette case

Postby madej » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

Hello . What is the 24 A mark? I did not find artel 24 :)
I do not have better quality photos.
Click on the image for better qualitty.
Regards
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Qrt.S
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:44 am

Here you can read about the artels:
http://www.silvercollection.it/dictionaryARTELSMO.html
Pay attention to this:" Until today there is no evidence of the existence of a silver artel carrying any of the following numbers: 10, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 27 or 30. Why the series of numbers is incomplete is not known."
However, I don't think that this 24A would be the the mark of the possibly "missing" 24th artel's mark. If it is, it would be a sensational finding made by you. What talks against it is the shape of the mark and the average quality of the case... Let's wait and see what others might have to say...

madej
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Re: cigarette case

Postby madej » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:48 am

Thanks
I know that artel 24 is not known, but maybe that's it :)
Let's wait for what others will say
Regards

madej
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Re: cigarette case

Postby madej » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:16 am

Hi.
It's hard to tell if it's Artel or something else? :)
Regards

madej
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Re: cigarette case

Postby madej » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm

Hi
Last question :) Can anyone definitely exclude that it is not 24 artel? I know that it is not known today but that does not mean it did not exist.
Regards

Aguest
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Aguest » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:00 am

Just curious what the inscription says and wondering what the decorations on the front of the case looks like? (Artel24)

Qrt.S
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Qrt.S » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:48 am

Yes, show us the inscription. It might reveal something, who knows? I hardly believe the case being a product of the "missing" 24th artel That would be a sensation! By the way the quality is not even close to the craftsmanship presented by the artels. Please read the introduction in the link i showed earlier.

madej
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Re: cigarette case

Postby madej » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:17 pm

Hi.
Written in Polish "In gratitude, friends
Novoradomsk, 12/10/1917 "
Regards

Aguest
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Aguest » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:13 am

Would knowledge of Polish hallmarks from 1915-1920 be of any use in this case? ___ I know it is a number "2," but it kind of looks like a swan, but that might be an optical illusion because I have been staring at these hallmarks for awhile now (insomnia) ___

Qrt.S
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:25 am

There is no "Poland" before 1920, it is Russia. The independent Poland abolished the Russian hallmark system in 1920 and created its own. The marks on the cigarette case have nothing to do with the new hallmarks:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fpoland_marks_1.html

Goldstein
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Goldstein » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:26 pm

Hi -

this neverending fake discussions are rather boring. The shown fakes get simpler and simpler - there is no limit anymore.

1) this cigarette case pattern is a typical British (England) pattern and nowhere else seen or made - n o t R u s s i a n!
2) the monogramms are in Latin not in Cyrillic and when you look close: they are older than the Polish inscription = the Polish inscription was added later!
3) the 24A is total sensless when you know the history of the different Artels and what they fabricated in highest quality! They never used coloured glass cabouchons.
4) the kokoschnik mark is a fake - where the eliminated English marks have been I do not know - may be it is only plated - your photos are not precise enough.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Regards
Goldstein

Aguest
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Aguest » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:26 pm

I just thought the date of 1917 fell within the period of 1915-1920 and so....

1915-1920: Third Interim Marks
After Poland’s freedom from Russia, it took a few years for the new Polish government to introduce its own hallmarking system. In the meantime, most silver was marked with the word „SREBRO” (silver), or just „SR” and the fineness, still in zolotniks.


I have no knowledge of this period of history from 1915-1920 in this particular region...

Qrt.S
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Re: cigarette case

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 am

The statement of the "Third Interim Marks" was made by Zolotnik (Goldstein) years ago. I don't know what is the source/base for that and cannot recall for the moment ever seeing such marks ever....maybe. However, during the wartime of WWI, in yet "non-existing Poland" that was occupied in turns by Austria, Germany and Russia, was used a common mark for gold (550-583) and silver (750-800). This mark was sword hilt (1914-1918) in a quadratic shield with cut corners (I have never seen that mark either in reality). Anyway, during wartime not much if any objects in valuable metals are made. There are more important matters to take care of and the metals are needed for other purposes.

Anyway, this cigarette case is under no circumstances made by the "missing 24th" artel and it origin is dubious.


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