Spoon & Fork

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Goldstein
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Spoon & Fork

Postby Goldstein » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:53 am

Hi -

found this nice set - but can not find the maker MY. Assayer: Dubrovin, Nikolaj L. 1822-1855. Both Moscow.
Any help welcome!

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Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Posts: 2687
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Qrt.S » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:37 am

@Goldstein
Nikolay Dubrovin!? To my knowledge his punch was Н·Д. On the assayer's mark you show I see A·K and he is Andrey Kovalsky 1821(2?)-1856 in Moscow. The maker's mark is not MY but МЧ (Latin MCh) But never mind, maybe you are not familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet or have a broken keyboard. Unfortunately the maker is unknown to name.

Ubaranda
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Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Ubaranda » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:12 pm

Hi all!

Qrt.S is absoluteli right - the assayer is Andrey Kovalsky. The maker is Michail Tchevarsin (Михаил Чеварзин), the father of wellknown Moscow silversmith Anton Tchevarsin.

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Best regards!

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1028
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Goldstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:52 am

Hi Ubaranda -

many thanks for the name of the silversmith! Was longtime searching him - made very nice spoons!
The wrong assayer was my fault - took the wrong line...but you can not edit a mistakeon this forum.
And Qrt.S is always happy when he has something to say...

Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Goldstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:46 am

Hi -

here some more from this maker - the dates vary very much against the Ivanov listing...explanation?

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Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Posts: 2687
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:51 am

@Goldstein,
I'm not happy at all. On the country very sad when I see incorrect information spread by especially you because I know you know much better. The problem, however, is that incorrect information is easily forwarded on a forum like this and in the long run it suddenly becomes the truth. That is a real problem!
Goldstein wrote:Hi -

here some more from this maker - the dates vary very much against the Ivanov listing...explanation?

Those spoons (АЧ) are made by Anton , not Mihailo (МЧ)

The son Anton was active before 1852 to 1897, maybe a bit later. The father Mihailo is "mentioned" 1852 having in 1860 5 workers. This means that his exact working period is not known. For some for me unknown reason Ivanov mentions very often "....in 1852...". The reason might be that as very well known lots of documents were destroyed around 1874 as "unnecessary and only space taking in the archives...". Maybe something was left i the archive regarding the year 1852? Nonetheless,today we have to live with that deplorable mistake made in the past. We simply don't know it all and that is why I sometimes use the expression "....it might/could be..." hated by Goldstein.
I hope I made myself clear now.

Goldstein
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Posts: 1028
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Goldstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:48 am

Hi -

in PL # 2216-2218 and # 2257 you can read who is who!

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Posts: 2687
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:59 pm

Why? Ubaranda has already told us that in pure English:
Ubaranda wrote:Hi all!

The maker is Michail Tchevarsin (Михаил Чеварзин), the father of wellknown Moscow silversmith Anton Tchevarsin.
Best regards!

Goldstein
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Posts: 1028
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Spoon & Fork

Postby Goldstein » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:49 pm

Hi -

Why?

Because that is the/a source!

Regards
Goldstein


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