hallmark ld on russia enameled box

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
gsmoggy
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:31 am

could anyone help re hallmark ld on russia enamel box. could some one tell me how i down load images? i cannot see the section to do this.

dognose
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby dognose » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:45 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

The below should help you:

How to Add Images

Posting Requirements

http://www.tinypic.com is recommended. Embedded images get a far greater response than just posting links.

Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post

For more information see:

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=37974&p=103282#p103282

Give some time to creating your post and we'll give some time to researching and answering them.

Trev.

gsmoggy
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:30 pm

Thanks for your reply and help on loading images, hope its works out.
The images are not very clear. The impression mark is like a oblong shape with a large letter L, and a small d, then what looks like an figure 4. In the oval shape underneath is numbers 916. With some other shape next to it which I can't see properly as it is slightly rubbed.
Would be greatful if any suggestions on the Russian silver maker and the age of the box.
Many thanks
Guido


Image

gsmoggy
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:45 pm

hello I have had to do another post as the image did not load before.
thanks Guido
Image

Qrt.S
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:21 am

Sorry, but not a chance to say anything. The marks are too small and unclear. Take a sharp close-up of the marks only, crop it and enlarge.

gsmoggy
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:04 pm

hello Qrt.s
thanks for your reply .i will try and download a better image of the mark.my camera does not have a micro setting. can you tell me any thing about the box looking at the picture of it ? many thanks Guido.

Goldstein
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Goldstein » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Hi gsmoggy -

try to make a scetch - make a photo of the scetch - post.

Without being a clairvoyant, I can say the following: Highly simplified enamel clausonné (please google: cloisonné), probably Soviet manufacture, silver content 916/1000. More if we have your sketch.

Regards
Goldstein

gsmoggy
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:00 am

Hi Goldstein
Thanks for your reply. As you know I am very new to the forum and since I have been on it I have been very interested in all your posts (you are my silver guru) I am very happy that you have taken an interest in my box which was sold to me as being a good Russian box with marks for Moscow 1904-1906.I have had better images of the marks taken and have loaded them.

Image
Image
Image

many thanks Guido.

AG2012
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby AG2012 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:26 am

Hi,
Millesimal standard is not consistent with Imperial Russia.
Maker`s initials are in the alphabet I cannot recognize (either Far East or closest to Russia - Armenian, but slim chances).
Moscow 1904-1906

Out of question.
Enameling is not very well executed, by the way.
Most probably contemporary Far East.
Regards

gsmoggy
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:44 am

Hi Ag2012
thanks very much for your reply. I appreciate your opinion . I hope you are not correct .as I mentioned before that it was sold in the auction catalog as a good Russian box .Do you have any images of similar boxes made recently in the far east? I will be very disappointed if you are correct as I have paid quiet a lot for it.I may have to approach the auction house over the misdiscribing of it.

many thanks Guido.

AG2012
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby AG2012 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:13 am

Hello again,
The basic knowledge about Russian Imperial silver is zolotniki standard:
http://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html
Millesimal standard was not used anywhere in Russian Empire.
Whatever auction house was badly wrong and misleading and I think you should claim money back.It`s not about the provenance or the maker but basic deceptive description of an item.This box cannot be sold as Imperial Russian silver. Full stop.
Regards

AG2012
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby AG2012 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:52 am

Take care; online sellers are unscrupulous but auction houses have their premises.
This pill box is offered as Fedor Rückert at $$$$ which is nonsense.Made the day before yesterday and faked marks.
Beyond the scope of this forum to elaborate Chinese taste and quality compared to genuine excellency of Fedor Rückert.
Russians call it ``фуфло``.
There is no point in searching for nearly identical newly made boxes to compare with, but claim your money back based on the fact there was no millesimal standard in Imperial Russia.Good luck.

Image

Goldstein
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Goldstein » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:55 pm

Hi gsmoggy -

please be so kind and try to make a "SHARP" photo of the mark (red arrow)! The other mark is Chinese I am afraid...As AG2012 already stated - it is not Russian (Imperial), maybe Sovietic import mark or Chinese importmark - it depends on what we can see on your next photo.
Try to give it back - the vendor was dishonest or ignorant.
Image

Regards
Goldstein

gsmoggy
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:43 pm

Hi Goldstein and Ag
Thanks very much for your comments.the mark next to 916 is a bit rubbed and is quiet difficult to photograph ,it looks to me that it is similar to a Russian town mark (or is supposed to be) as I said before I am dissappointed that it is not a Russian box Admin edit.if the mark next to the 196 is a Russian town mark will this change anything or will its still be a fake because of the makers letters ?
Last edited by oel on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Price tag

Qrt.S
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:34 am

This box is most likely produced in the Soviet Union 1927-1946. The oval mark with 916 is the "rabota-mark". The other mark is unknown to me
Image

Goldstein
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Goldstein » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:59 am

Hi -

I see the 916 on the right side - what is left? Let´s wait for a better photo!

Dear gsmoggy -

please, please post [url]decent, clear and sharp photos in an orderly size[/url] - otherwise it is more of a guesswork!

Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Goldstein » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:06 am

Hi -
I am wrong - the 916 is left - what is right?

Image

Regards
Goldstein

gsmoggy
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:47 am

Hi Goldstein
I will try to load better photos .It may take me some time as I have to find someone with the right camera ,it has been difficult to take clear pictures ,as the image is very faint on the end of the oval.could this be one of those "Rabota marks" mentioned by Qrt.s ? were there different Rabota marks and what did they look like?
many Thanks Qrt.s and Goldstein.

Goldstein
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Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby Goldstein » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:23 am

Hi gsmoggy -

this "worker´s" mark (rabota) was in use 1927-1958 in different forms/shapes.

How about loading down this files and start reading/learning? viewtopic.php?f=61&t=49177
And no blurry photos anymore - if you can not see anything - you can not say something. Wasted time for all!
Heads up and start investigating in the above mentioned book.

Regards
Goldstein

gsmoggy
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:24 am

Re: hallmark ld on russia enameled box

Postby gsmoggy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:28 am

Hi Goldstein
thank you for all the great info,sorry about fuzzy images ,i found it difficult to find the right person to take images.Hopefully this last image gives us the final answer.It seems some of the previous comments and guesses were of the mark .it is interesting your first thoughts that it was a soviet box have been proved to be correct if I am reading this mark correctly.Also ag was also spot on.well done.
<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=10gk3ut" target="_blank"><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/10gk3ut.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
Ma<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=10gk3ut" target="_blank"><img src="http://i64.tinypic.com/10gk3ut.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>ny thanks to everyone. Guido


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