The last one of this group of Russian enameled spoons is marked 84 & A K, who might it be?
Thanks.
Russian enamel spoon A K
Russian enamel spoon A K
Hello
The last one of this group of Russian enameled spoons is marked 84 & A K, who might it be?
Thanks.
The last one of this group of Russian enameled spoons is marked 84 & A K, who might it be?
Thanks.
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
In my opinion this spoon is a fake.
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Dito!
Goldstein
Goldstein
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Thanks for that. As explained in my other post about these spoon i know for a fact that they have been in the possession of a family for some 30 years now.While that in itself doesn't prove anything i'm surprised that there would of been any incentive at the time to produce fakes.
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Hi -
....not all told stories are true....
even if the spoon was stored in a drawer for 30 years the enamel would have changed and would not shine like a bacon rind! There is an aging process - particularly at a more than 100 years old enamel spoon. The atmosphere can not be locked out ....30 years ago nobody would have faked a spoon like that - countless original spoons were around - cheaper than dirt - but no market.
Goldstein
....not all told stories are true....
even if the spoon was stored in a drawer for 30 years the enamel would have changed and would not shine like a bacon rind! There is an aging process - particularly at a more than 100 years old enamel spoon. The atmosphere can not be locked out ....30 years ago nobody would have faked a spoon like that - countless original spoons were around - cheaper than dirt - but no market.
Goldstein
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
I will no fall into details but in addition to what Goldstein stated, the marks are imperfect, there is no hallmark at all, so.... Moreover, fakes have been produced for ages....
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Surely this is harsh to describe this spoon as a fake? It is perhaps only a traditional Russian-style spoon, maybe from an area outside outside Soviet hallmarking control, and made perhaps in the 2nd half of the 20th century?
As it has no hallmarks, then surely not a fake.
Trev.
As it has no hallmarks, then surely not a fake.
Trev.
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Undoubtedly the spoon looks very much like a spoon made in imperial Russia in the 19th century. However, the marks look wrong and as I already mentioned there is no hallmark, only a fineness mark (84) with a wrong font and a "maker's mark" (AK). It is an insufficient marking. The Soviet era used as from 1927 promille not zolotnik expressing fineness included in the hallmark. The Russian legislation was very strict and with marks like that the spoon could not have been sold on the market. If I had stumbled into a spoon with such marks, I would not have bought it.
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Hi,
Beside suspicious facts already explained, there is a possibility the shaft has been manipulated.
Red arrows point to what may look like a solder line, and besides, have never seen bands unprofessionally made like this (another set of red arrows).
Are there spoons without a hallmark (in spite of limited space)? I mean, only maker`s mark and ``84``.
(These spoons are rather common. This cannot be the first spoon ever lacking the hallmark).
Or I may be wrong.
P.S. Digit ``4`` really looks odd, even with the possibility of being poorly struck.
Regards
Beside suspicious facts already explained, there is a possibility the shaft has been manipulated.
Red arrows point to what may look like a solder line, and besides, have never seen bands unprofessionally made like this (another set of red arrows).
Are there spoons without a hallmark (in spite of limited space)? I mean, only maker`s mark and ``84``.
(These spoons are rather common. This cannot be the first spoon ever lacking the hallmark).
Or I may be wrong.
P.S. Digit ``4`` really looks odd, even with the possibility of being poorly struck.
Regards
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
Hi -
if you realy want the proof if, when and where this spoon was made: give a metallurgical / enamel opinion in order and you'll learn prezise where and when the spoon was made. By the respective DNA of the components a simple but infallible method. For the interested: GE PHASOR XS, Fischer XAN 220 and Fischer Sigmascope - just to name a few used in Germany. Unfortunately the DNA method is not cheap ...
Fake marks are only counterfeit marks but say nothing about the origin and composition of the enamel or silver.
Example a little shortened: silvercontent of the spoon: 810/1000, place of origin of the silver: South Africa (according to the DNA), place of origin of the enamel: India 2015 (according to the DNA). Marks: phony
We live in the 21st Century - there are not much secrets left!
Goldstein
if you realy want the proof if, when and where this spoon was made: give a metallurgical / enamel opinion in order and you'll learn prezise where and when the spoon was made. By the respective DNA of the components a simple but infallible method. For the interested: GE PHASOR XS, Fischer XAN 220 and Fischer Sigmascope - just to name a few used in Germany. Unfortunately the DNA method is not cheap ...
Fake marks are only counterfeit marks but say nothing about the origin and composition of the enamel or silver.
Example a little shortened: silvercontent of the spoon: 810/1000, place of origin of the silver: South Africa (according to the DNA), place of origin of the enamel: India 2015 (according to the DNA). Marks: phony
We live in the 21st Century - there are not much secrets left!
Goldstein
Re: Russian enamel spoon A K
@AG2012
Of course there are a huge variety of "Russian" (enameled) spoons without hallmarks and/or with suspicious marks on the current market. I call them fakes...! Please read different threads in the Russian sector of 925. There the hallmarking procedure has been explained many times. Imperial Russian silver is except a few exceptions always hallmarked according to the law and if not, it is a dubious object (the exceptions excluded).
Of course there are a huge variety of "Russian" (enameled) spoons without hallmarks and/or with suspicious marks on the current market. I call them fakes...! Please read different threads in the Russian sector of 925. There the hallmarking procedure has been explained many times. Imperial Russian silver is except a few exceptions always hallmarked according to the law and if not, it is a dubious object (the exceptions excluded).