Bolin

[Goldstein]

Hi -
The name of the Bolin company is usually overshadowed by the reputation of the Fabergé firm - although it was larger and perhaps more important when it came to the creation of exceptional jewelery. Bolin and Fabergé worked closely and fruitfully together.
Bolin left in good time 1916 before the Revolution and he had to leave everything behind - his property in Russia was expropriated.
For the interested, there is a very nice book with all the history and facts together with many rare photos of his excellent work. The title:



St. Petersburg advertisement


The marks used over the years


Silverspoon from 1896-1908 made by his important master Karl Linke (silver objects were only made in the Moscow branch).



Gold cigarette case, thumb piece crusted with diamonds also made by Karl Linke, 1908-16



After his escape from Russia in 1916 he started a new enterprise in Stockholm


Sugar tongs from 1919, silver, very thin



Cigarette case from 1945, silver, very simple



I found several objects from his time in Stockholm - they were all too plain and bland for my taste.
No comparison to the things that were made earlier in Russia!

Goldstein

source:
Smycken & Silver by M. Ribbing
coll. Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

The famous master who marked KL and worked with Bolin and Lorie in Moscow was Konstantin Lincke not Karl!

[Goldstein]

Hi -
Please note the following and correct your sources. Both the spelling, the first name and the assumed working for Lorie is inaccurate. The master of Lorie had the name Tscherjatov ...see PL # 2398-2400, p. 213!

Here the official informations from the Bolin family files - you can easy find them in the book: Smycken & Silver för tsarer, drottningar och andra by M. Ribbing - a must read for the advanced and eager to learn silver enthusiasts - on the page 229!
For your convenience, I have copied the appropriate page:




It is a pity that you does not specify sources from which you draw your knowledge - it would make everything easier.

Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

OK so be it; blue Ivanov vol 1 #2449. Compare the maker's marks! The kokoshnik hallmark with small figures indicates the exact manufacturing year to be the latter part of 1898. Maria Lincke/Linke is as well identified by Ivanov but not any Karl.



Please note that the text states "Karl Linke seems to have been..." The spelling is always a problem in the transliteration from/to Cyrillic letters.

Magdalena Ribbing's speciality is jewellry not silver marks. I'm familiar with the book. It is an interesting book indeed.

[Ubaranda]

Konstantin Linke was the Moscow silversmith. Why we see the St. Petersburg hallmark? Is it fake?

[Goldstein]

Hi-
I think you did not get the message of my threat! As often. Instead you come up with one of the most dubious sources on the market!
You ignore the latest findings of an international group of experts who have access to never-before-seen real pieces of royal, private and public collections. With clear photos and all the background.
Of course you know the book, have reportedly conducted long conversations with Ulla Godenhielm -Tillander and have access to numerous but anonymous major collections. Why do not you use these resources? Not one new insight or interesting photo - instead, you come up with Ivanov. Now I understand why you never name sources!

Not for you - you know/ignore all that - but for the forum.

The used collections:




The experts involved:



Goldstein

source:
Smycken & Silver by M. Ribbing

[Goldstein]

Hi Ubaranda -
the person at issue here is Karl Linke. Please reread my article! Karl Linke was the important workmaster at the Bolin firm. Bolin had two shops, St. Petersburg (gold and jewelry) and Moscow (silver). In case you do not understand: gold and jewels were only fabricated in St. Petersburg, silver was only fabricated in Moscow . But you could buy silver in St. Petersburg and jewels in Moscow - yes - but it was assayed where it was made - gold and jewels in St. Petersburg - silver in Moscow. The shown cigarette case was made and assayed in St. Petersburg - by workmaster Karl Linke!

Goldstein

[Ubaranda]

Goldstein, in this case, who made this spoon in Moscow?

[Goldstein]

Hi -
Karl Linke - you should read my article.I can not do more then post photos and explaining text. Reading should be done by yourself!

Goldstein

[Dad]

Goldstein.

Ubaranda is right. Kokoshnik from your golden sigarcase look very doubtfully

[Goldstein]

Hi Dad -

Ubaranda is right. Kokoshnik from your golden sigarcase look very doubtfully

Why not! But to take me in a permanent cross-examination does not help. What I need are other photos (silver and gold, no jewels) of Bolin´s work to compare. Most of all who made what. In other words: an interesting discussion without blah blah and stereotyped comments what Ivanov has written.
It is useless for me if someone retell what he previously has read somewhere. I want concrete examples and photos of real objects.

Goldstein

[Dad]

Goldstein.

I speak about a "kokoshnik" from your photo, only. I don't discuss a punches of producers - they often changed. But the assay punches (1908) has the accurate and fixed circuit of drawing.
Sorry, but I am on vacation now - in a distance from my archive.
Compare original punches to your punches and you will understand.

Or try to make other photo.

[Goldstein]

Hi Dad -

here some punches - all a little different:

Bolin

Wigström

Bragin

Fariseev

Karpov

Naimor

Pankratev comes very close - and nobody would fake a $ 10 spoon


But maybe Bolin objects are all faked, Linke is Lincke (Konstantin or Karl) and worked for Lorie not for Bolin. The book is wrong.
I could show more interesting stuff from Bolin but with all that negative attitude I refrain.
Just a little tease:
unfortunately enamel loss



Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

I liked to put some inputs earlier but because it appeared that there are too many open questions here I didn't. Instead I made some researches and was as well in contact with Bolin in Stockholm. Here are the results:

The master who worked with Bolin in Moscow was Konstantin Linke (not Lincke). He was the son of Maria and Edward Linke, born either 1865 or 1866. Karl Linke is a phantom, a mix with Konstantin, probably made by mistake by Skurlov. Bolin cannot recall having a master marking KL in St Petersburg. In other words Karl is a nonexistent character as already mentioned. This KL maker's mark in St Petersburg has popped up much later and is most likely a fake irrespective of that his objects in some cases has been in “Bolin's boxes”. However, the boxes look very much like Bolin's originals but seems to be faked too. The last seen was at Bonham's Russian Art auction last month. It is considered most likely faked. Deeper investigations has not been made. In Bolin's exhibition catalog “ Bolin in Russia” Moskva 2001, page 107 Tatjana Muntjan writes: ”Konstantin Linke once erronously named Karl in some publications…”.

It is, anyway, a narrow possibility that this KL in St Petersburg is a genuine but by name unknown mark but he is not “Karl”/Konstantin Linke. More likely a fake, anyway. It is suspected that some creative faker has read Bolin's jubilee book from 1996, page 31 where a picture is shown of a brooch of a stag beetle marked KL with St Petersburg's town mark. Based on that some “creative” person has drawn some “conclusions...”. Later it has been revealed that the brooch has nothing to do with Linke or Bolin, a mistake in other words.

As to Magdalena Ribbing, who is a journalist only and no researcher, whatsoever. She only got the task to write the Book “Smycken och silver”. She collected the content from existing different sources and has for mentioned reasons not made any new discoveries by herself. Unfortunately she repeated some errors too in her book. It is not advisable to refer to this book as a source of information.

In addition, please keep in mind that a master could not be registered in two places at the same time. That was against the regulations. KL being the same person both in Moscow and St. Petersburg is therefore more or less impossible. It is nothing new with that. Please note that Dad wrote that the cigarette box has suspicious marks and likely faked and I that the forename is Konstantin, not Karl. You wrote something else. Ubaranda asked a justified question of who is KL in Moscow, You answered Karl, and referred to your article. What was the case I may ask. Please delete your “article” it contains misleading information.

Now Zolotmik how about your “blah blah” comments of who wrote what and was Ivanov correct or not? He was right, wasn't he? By the way, you often refer to PL and despise Ivanov. There are lots of mistakes in Postnikova as in Ivanov too. That is very well known. There are not currently a single book available without mistakes and faults regarding Russian silver. The bests are still Postnikova and Ivanov.

You probably will come up with some comments or explanations. However, “Sorry, I was wrong” will do very well. If you don't believe what is written above, feel free to contact Bolin in Stockholm and check for yourself. In addition, now you also have sources to check from.

[Ubaranda]

Qrt.S, thank you for such a detailed response! You are absolutely right - before the discussion Goldstein should be acquainted with the rules of Russian hallmarking and other primary sources. Otherwise, all discussion is blah-blah-blah :-)

[AG2012]

Hi,
Thank you for enlightening me with facts beyond my knowledge.
Free translation from Russian, as far as I can understand it.
``Masters were strictly forbidden to assay precious metals elsewhere, but only where registered``
`` Consequently, experts should particularly pay attention to adequate masters and assayers marks. If they are different, the item should be considered a fake``
Regards

[Qrt.S]

Yes correct, that is exactly what has been pointed out on this sites many times by both me and others. The maker's mark and town mark must correspond. But note that the town mark is not necessarily the place where the master has his workshop! It is the place where he is registered only and it might differ from the workshop's location. These differences can be seen especially in Russian Estonia and Latvia.
However, the main point in this thread is still the phantom "Karl" Linke and the mark KL in connection with Bolin!

[Qrt.S]

Forgot to mention. I cannot find any Andrei Christianovitsh Tepponen (Goldstein's extract 16.66. at 1.29PM) in St Petersburg. But I found Christian Tepponen ~1870-1881 in St Petersburg (P#1566). He was a Finn born in Hamina in Finland 16.11.1823 and he came to St.P 1841. He became master ~1870 and marked CT. He probably had a son (Christianovitsh???) because after the revolution Juho Tepponen (maybe sonson?) founded a workshop in Helsinki and was active 1920-1949. He marked JT. Strange that there are no signs of any Andrei Tepponen in my sources??? A bit out of topic but only to show how varying the information might be. I wonder where from Ribbing got this information? From the same source as Karl Linke?

[Goldstein]

Hi -



it is good to know that all the above international experts and institutes who were in the preparation of the book involved are terribly wrong and disqualified by you - what a overconfidence!
Throughout the world, the textbooks need to be rewritten!

Instead I made some researches and was as well in contact with Bolin in Stockholm. Here are the results:

The Bolin we here speak of is long dead! With whom did you speak? The book and its content was authorized by the family before printing - who provided many unknown objects and files. Magdalena Ribbing is the author of the book - not a researcher! All the photos, files and facts she got from the family, from Russian institutes and the international experts. Do not blame her for possible mistakes or errors others made! I can not remember having ever heard about an update of KL´s history somewhere.

Here the stag beetel brooch - please look where it is stored - you should inform them - you know everything.They never heard of Ivanov...
And please do not underestimate international gemstone examiners - they can tell you from which mine/country each stone is by its DNA and when it was found. You can 100% determine fake or not!




To my cigarette case:
the gold and the weight is correct, the diamonds are old cut (today not available), form and size is time comform, quality is very good and condition is perfect.
The marks look a little strange but as long as I have seen no further, stamped gold objects from Bolin, I believe what the experts write - unless there are well-founded, new findings - which are also assignable.
By the way - I also think that such an influential, wealthy and ennobled by the Tsar businessman and Court jeweler had ways to circumvent official stamp regulations. KL was the main workmaster - whoever he was - that is fact. Gold and Jewels were only made in St. Petersburg, silver only in Moscow - that is the version of Bolin. How did that work? Shuttled KL back and forth between the two cities? Although KL was the main workmaster - nearly nothing is known from him.

I think it is useless to ask you or others to provide photos of some gold punches from the Bolin firm to compare with the shown one - you have none. Maybe your hot and personal wire to Stockholm....

Goldstein

[Qrt.S]

@Goldstein
Actually I have a personal wire to Stockholm, hahahaaa! Do you think I'm a psychic and able to communicate with pasted persons? There are living people working in Bolin today. Nonetheless, it is true as you state that Ribbing's book was authorized by the family before printing, but what the family did not know at that moment was that the beetle was not made by Bolin. They anticipated it only due the maker's mark. I should have mentioned that, sorry for not doing it. The truth was revealed after the book was printed. Why do you tell me that Ribbing is not a researcher, I told you that already in my previous input and as well as that she is a reporter only? What she did was only copying information from here and there, some of it incorrect. The institutions or auctions houses you mention were not actually "involved" but copied. I don't blame Ribbing for mistakes but for not checking the truth before writing anything.

Please, don't involve Ulla Tillander-Godenhielm in this, I know exactly her opinion (note the spelling of her surname) regarding this case. Action houses' sometimes "dubious attributions" are well known...!
Anyway, the beetle is not a fake. It is only "attributed" to Bolin but the signature/mark is still rather unclear. Read the text connected to it for God's sake! The best experts in this particular case is, however, the information given by the existing company Bolin and the family. They know what happened in Russia, not you and I trust in them and not either in your "belief" or thinking!

Somehow I find it ridiculous, evidences have been presented, sources have been mentioned as you have requested but still you argue against cool facts. Try to accept that KL in St. P is not Karl Linke, your cigarette case is not made by Konstantin Linke/Bolin, it is most likely a fake. In addition, what you think or believe couldn't care me less. The truth has been revealed. Mind me saying this but all fakers are not idiots. Of course they try to copy originals as much as possible marks included.