Help with Vesta Box

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
dognose
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Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:14 pm

Hi,

Can someone help with the identification of the maker of this vesta box:

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Any thoughts appreciated.

Trev.

piette
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby piette » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:40 pm

Hi Trev,

The hallmark appears to be that of Pavel Ocvhinnikov.

P

Qrt.S
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby Qrt.S » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:43 pm

There must be a reason why you are asking who is the maker. I see Pavel Ovchinnikov's ordinary mark with the lower part of the court supplier mark, so why are you asking? Is it the not so common hallmark with assayer AA who is Artsibaschev, Anatoly Apollonovitch 1888-1898 in Moscow or what might be the reason?

dognose
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:17 pm

Thank you both for the information. The vesta is not mine, I was gleaning information for a friend who is kind enough to send images to me for use on the forum and my knowledge of Russian silver can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Thanks again to you both.

Trev.

Goldstein
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby Goldstein » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:53 pm

Hi all -
The firm of goldsmiths founded in 1853 by Pavel Akimovich Ovtschinnikov, alongside Fabergé the most important in Russia. The firm received the Imperial Warrant in 1883. Ovtschinnikov was the first business to devote itself entirely to the manufacture of articles in Russian national style. It also exhibited at every world fair and in particular earned honourable mention at those in Chicago in 1893 and Paris in 1900. He supplied Cartier with articles.

1) In my opinion the marks on this vesta box are faked and mounted deliberately sloppy for "understandable reasons". Immagine a silversmith in the workshop of Ovtschinnikov working like that.
2) Silvercontent should be 88 Zolotniki - as on most of his objects
3) Design and quality are inadequate
4) Strikerplate is strange and never seen before

This "English" model existed in Russia - I enclose 2 examples made by wellknown firms:

Fedor Rückert (Fabergé)
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see strikerplate!

Gustav Klingert
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Source: Russian Gold and Silverwork, A. von Solodkoff, Coll. Goldstein

Goldstein

dognose
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:58 pm

Hi Goldstein,

Thank you for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

Trev.

dognose
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:34 am

A couple of extra images showing the sandpaper insert space:

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Trev.

Goldstein
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby Goldstein » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:02 am

Hi -
in my collection I have some 50 Russian match safes (vesta boxes) of all styles according to the yearlong development of the matches, the different modes, carrying methods and personal taste. For the sake of completeness I show a "table" model and a typical cigarette case with tinder cord and integrated match safe.. All have one in common: striker plates in metal exept those for domestic use or the latest models for the modern matchletters in paper - they had the strikerplate integrated in the carton wrapping. It took you some force to ignite a match in those days...
Here a small selection of the different models available at that time:

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"Modern" match safe for carton wrapped matches
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Pocket or table model papermaché
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Cigarette case with tinder cord and integrated match safe
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Table model papermaché
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The "English" model
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Your shown model I never have seen - maybe it is the famous "missing link"? But I have my doubts! The striker plate should be silver, iron or steal. Often it was lost - if made from iron it got rusty over the years and the owner removed it - and replaced it with a "modern" paper friction surface. The shown version is not original.

Goldstein

Source: Coll. Goldstein

dognose
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:05 am

An English version of the same striking method:

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H.J. Cooper & Co. - London - 1902

Not for vestas, but for safety matches.

Trev.

Goldstein
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby Goldstein » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:43 pm

Hi -
that was the reason why I think the match box was not "born" in Russia. This kind of striker surface I never have seen on any kind of Russian match boxes. This is a surface used for the Italian little waxmatches which ignite on every hard surface. Much too delicate for the Russians....

Goldstein

dognose
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Re: Help with Vesta Box

Postby dognose » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:03 pm

No, for safety matches, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match

You would need to remove the striking panel from an ordinary of safety matches and insert it into the space provided.

Trev.


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