Moscow niello beaker

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Joerg
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Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Moscow niello beaker

Post by Joerg »

Dear forum members
I found this beaker on a flea market. When I bought it it was all black and the niello was hardly visible. I cleaned the beaker first with water and liquid soap. Then I used silver polish only for the silver surfaces and the niello. I am uncertain how I should clean the gilded part.
To my questions: I am rather certain this beaker was made by Wasilij Semenow. Assayer according 925-1000 reference is Viktor or Veniamin Savinsky. Do you agree?
Then, what do you suggest for further cleaning? Leave as is, or carefully cleaning? With what? Suggestions are very welcome.
Regards
Jörg

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Qrt.S
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by Qrt.S »

Beaker? What is its measures? maybe it is a vodka cup a "rjumka"? Measures should always be told!!! If there are no measures or nothing to compare with how can we readers imagine the questioned object's size!!!

Do never use silver polish on gilded parts. It will easily be destroyed.
Could be the suggested maker. However, please keep in mind that there are a lot of Russian masters with the same initials , who's names are lost. Why this might be Semenov is that a master could not use the same initials that was already used by another active master in the same town or assaying area.
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi Joerg -
gilded surfaces on silver should never be polished with a silver polish paste! Silver dips are strictly forbidden. The best care for gilding, niello, enamel is liquid tile cleaner you find in household shops. The contained citrus acid in it brings the gold to shine and do no harm. As last rinse for heavily engraved silver it is also favoured after polishing it.

Regards
Zolotnik
Ubaranda
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Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by Ubaranda »

Qrt.S wrote: Why this might be Semenov is that a master could not use the same initials that was already used by another active master in the same town or assaying area.
Very interesting judgment! For example: 3 makers BA, the same city, the same time. How do you explain this?

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numis.geneve
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by numis.geneve »

I think it is the same maker as the Moscow Niello spoon posted earlier in this forum, at least the niello looks exactly in the same technique to me.
As Zolotnik sugested for my spoon- Wasily Semenov, don't know if it's him for sure, but pretty sure it's the same maker
numis.geneve
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:53 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by numis.geneve »

I wash silver in an ammonia solution, even the gilded part if really necessary, but without rubbing(if you rub, you will destroy the building)!It does not get all the staining out, but helps bring back the brightness.However in your case I would leave it as is, it does not seem too tarnished.
Qrt.S
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Posts: 3801
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by Qrt.S »

I don't have a waterproof explanation other that in former Russia anything was possible. What I stated was the law, assay charters and edicts. What happen in reality might have been something else. Anyway, maybe one "explanation" might be that the assay office accepted the same initials if the font or shield was different. As you see the marks are not completely identical except for the letters. Another "explanation" is that there are, as known, faults in Postnikova and in the 1870 hundred of thousands of documentation was destroyed by the officials for the reason that it occupied unnecessary space in the archives. What was the exact working period is not necessarily known in all cases. As an example there is working no period mentioned as to Akimov. Some periods are based on found marks etc. Sorry but there are still quite a lot of blanks to fill in regarding Russian masters!
Joerg
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Posts: 440
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Moscow niello beaker

Post by Joerg »

Dear contributors
Thank you for all your posts. Concerning the technical data requested:
Diameter on the top: 63 mm
Height: 68 mm
Mass: 100 gram
Volume: 15 cl, (1.5 dl)

I think I leave the beaker as it is for now. I do not need I cleaned further. And there is danger involved. However, I am not collecting Russian silver and so have little expertise. But I am for sure astonished by the quality of the niello work. I like my new item in my collection and will always admire its quality.

Jörg
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