unknown makers mark russian silver box

[wienerjunge]

Hi,

i enhareted a silver box which, i found out, is from russia and the assayers mark is aleksandr frans fan-der-flit´s.
however the makers mark is really badly stamped. I would like to know if any one of you can regognize the stamp.

Thank you for u help.

best regards

wienerjunge

[Qrt.S]

Indeed a lousy punch. You are right about the assayer but are these the only marks? Are there no marks on the inside of the lid? Take a new look.

[wienerjunge]

thank you for the quick response there where two more stamps inside of the lid but again very lousy :s
here are the other two stamps

[Qrt.S]

Sorry but I cannot read the initials. What if you use a good magnifier and then tell me what letters you possibly see. They can be either Cyrillic or Latin. Also note that the maker's mark could be up side down compared with the assaying mark.
However, I find it a bit strange that there is a different assaying mark in the lid. Would it be possible that the box is assembled from two different boxes. Check that the maker's mark is the same on the lid and the body.

[wienerjunge]

i cleanded the mark i hope this will help to find the maker

[Qrt.S]

Not yet, but clean the other mark too and show a sharp picture of it

[wienerjunge]

the mark in the lid is worse ! are you able to say something of its purpose or was it just used for storage ?
there are a few more pics of the mark inside th elit and the whole box

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

thank you for the help

[Qrt.S]

You haven't given any measures so it is a bit difficult to "estimate" its size but it looks like an ordinary cigar, jewelry,...whatever storage box. I cannot say for sure. Anyway the maker's mark's initials remains as a mystery, sorry. Let's hope somebody else can come up with something.

It is against the rules to valuate in this forum. However, it is silver in the fineness of 875/1000 so it is not worthless :-))).

[Zolotnik]

Hi -

The whole presentation suggests a high-quality work of a "better" workshop. Despite the skillful monogram neither the form, engraving, the feet or the closure corresponds with the countless well-known Russian caskets. Though everything looks fine - the marking went wrong - typical for fakes.

The pseudo maker´s mark of Michail Perchin - a top notch artist (but it looks like he had no correct punches and did not know how to mark....)



The original mark of Michail Perchin:



Regards
Zolotnik

[wienerjunge]

Thanks for your Information! So you think its Fake ? How come someone can make/Fake such a beautiful pice but is Not Able to Fake the makers Mark ?

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
this is not the place to discuss fakes - we want to discuss authentic Russian silver! Just a short explanation to your piece: this box started its existance not as Russian shatulka - I believe it was an European silver object, got a Russian monogramm and was "upgraded " with phony marks to Russsian silver. I bet the real silver content is 800 and not 875....
The international market is full of Russian fakes - it is a very profitable business - the customers are uneducated (do not know style, technique or time period)and buy nearly every object.

I've never understood the urge to "learn" about fakes. It's a waste of time. Spend that energy learning about the real thing and you'll know the fakes when you see them because they won't look like the real thing. No matter how much you "learn" about fakes, you'll never know everything about them so it's literally an all-consuming time-suck that has no value since every day new fakes hit the market.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Unfortunately it is quite possible that your box could be a fake. That would verify my earlier thoughts of differing marks between lid and body.

[Dad]

Hello.

Everyone contributor of the forum has the right to express the opinion. ))

I think, this item is original. All punches correspond to one period of time. The place and time are designated rightly.
The mark of maker is badly visible. Who was the maker - nobody knows.

Best Reg..

[wienerjunge]

Thank you everyone for Ur opinions! Is there any Way i can find out more about it? Like maybe a russian Website you guys know about ? Best regards