Question about punch

[Dad]

Hi, All.

What you think about this?

[Qrt.S]

Hello Dad,
At first glance one might say Haaa! Poland under Russian rule......but after taking a closer look no way! Anyway, not Russian, probably not even silver...never seen that mark before.

Maybe South Africa, Christian Barnard was active there in the early days :-)))))))

What's you thoughts Dad?

[Dad]

What's you thoughts Dad?

I don't know..((

The kind of punches is like russian... Pseudo? Or silverplated? I don't know..
May be Riga's assay office?

[Qrt.S]

No, not Riga and not Russian. All Riga assayers are known and there is no WB among them. Moreover, there is no "Barnard" among Riga masters at least not a known one. In addition, the town mark does not show crossed keys. More likely crossed daggers or swords or something like that. Could be some kind of pseudo marks, but ?

I think it is a plate mark or nickel silver mark. Unfortunately there are probably a "million" of unknown and unregistered plate marks. Probably the idea with this mark is to deceive people to believe it being silver. The same idea like with English plate marks, the same number of marks looking very similar to silver marks except for the missing lion passant etc.

[Dad]

No, not Riga and not Russian. All Riga assayers are known and there is no WB among them. Moreover, there is no "Barnard" among Riga masters at least not a known one. In addition, the town mark does not show crossed keys. More likely crossed daggers or swords or something like that. Could be some kind of pseudo marks, but ?

Thanks.
Do you have an example of punches of Riga's assay office from 1820-1840 ? Please, show me.

[Qrt.S]

In 1788 Riga changed their old coat of arms of two crossed keys to the new one, the town gate. It is the open town gate with two towers with flags. The change in the town mark for silver happened in the beginning of the first quarter of the 19th century. Here is the new town mark. Another variation includes a bit later 1840-50 the year down on the crest. That is all I have.

[Dad]

Thanks, Qrt.S.

But, this is the later mark.
I asked about punches from period 1820-1840. In 1811 began to work the Riga's assay office. Brosse was the first assay master from Imperial Mine Department. Qrt.S, there are any examples of his punches in your "latvian book" ?

Best Regards.

[Qrt.S]

No problem Dad,

However, you asked for the town marks of Riga around 1820-1840. The shown marks were used at that period. Andrei Brosse (Andrejs Brose) arrived in Riga 9.5. 1811 and assayed there 1811-1812- ?. The case around Brosse is a bit unclear (at least to me) because he doesn't have any aldermann letter connected to him. Probably he was only an assayer and not an aldermann. At the same time aldermann Jacob Lantzky used the letter G.

The old town mark, the crossed keys was not used in the 19th century except for in a few cases as far as I know.

If you have some additional information kindly tell us.

Did you ask for the crossed keys mark? I'm afraid that I have only rather lousy pictures, no original photos.

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, no pictures of Brosse's marks in the "book". I have never seen Brosse's mark.

[Dad]

Thanks, Qrt.S

I didn't see examples of punches of this period, too. But I know, that:
"In 1811 Andrey Brosse received 6 punches marks from the Mint of Petersburg. And he paid for these instruments 5 rubles 25 kopeks."
Therefore, examples of punches have to be.