Coffee or tea pot?

[jondane]

I have had this for some years now but have always wondered if it was a teapot or coffee pot. I have also wondered why there were so many silver marks on it as there seem to be a few too many. Can those who know help me with this?
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[Qrt.S]

It is without any doubts a coffee pot. A tall pot is always for coffee and and a short/low fat pot for tea.

1. The assaying mark, AK, the assayer 1879-1883 but unfortunately unknow to name. Assayed in Moscow 1881 (?) Fineness 84 zolotnik and riding St George, Moscow's town mark.
2. The maker's mark, the very well known company Hlebnikov in Moscow.
3. Hlebnikov's court supplier mark.
4. Latvia's (first republic) assaying mark from 1922-1940. The pot was reassayed in Latvia. Fineness 875/1000 (or 84 zolotnik).
5. Latvia's (first republic) warrant mark or state guarantee mark of silver from 1927-1940. This mark cannot stand alone. It must have as a "companion" number 4, the hallmark.

Note, the picture is now up side down.

[jondane]

Thank you for that. I had lived in fear that I was going to be told they were not genuine marks!

[jondane]

Thank you for that. I had lived in fear that I was going to be told they were not genuine marks!

You say the company mark "Hlebnikov" is that the same company as the "Khlebnikov" mark?

[Qrt.S]

Yes it is the same company. I Russian the company's name is written HLEBNIKOV without K. I cannot understand where from the English transliteration takes the K or why. In general English transliteration has a tendency of distorting Russian names like writing MIKHAIL when the correct name is MIHAIL Why the K again?

The Firm of Hlebnikov was founded by Ivan Hlebnikov in Moscow 1870. After Ivan's death in 1881 his sons Mihail, Alexei, Nikolai and Vladimir took over. The company was appointed the title of court supplier 1881. In 1882 there was about 200 cratfsmen working there. Hlebnikov ceased to exists 1918 for known reasons. It was one of the famous companies in imperial Russia.

[jondane]

Thankyou for your answer and your help.
I must admit to feeling like Oliver Twist asking for more when I post a question in here! :0)

[dognose]

Hi Jondane,

Welcome to the Forum.

Don't be shy with your questions. We all enjoy seeing your silver, and reading the ensuing debate.

Regards Trev.

[agphile]

Regarding transliteration from Russian to English, Kh is used to represent the fact that the Russian X is more guttural than the English H on its own. Most folk are unaware of the significance of "kh", simply pronouncing it as "k".

There are odd conventions the other way too. Russians represent the English or German H as if it were a G so that Henry becomes Genri. And the English are not necessarily consistent. We write Chekhov but also Tschaikovsky though both names begin with the same Ch sound.

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
the Russian letter X is normaly transliterated in German as CH/K. Pronounced either CH or K. We do the same in different languages: Christus is spoken with K in Russia and elswhere. International it is a little difficult to find a norm. In English everything is difficult and pure phonetic.But Hlebnikov? Russians can not speak a H ---Gitler kaput ---remember? But this is a silverforum and no language labor. Best would be we write in Kyrillik....it is unimportant how you pronounce the name - important is that the object is authentic :-)

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Correct Zolotnik, this is not a language laboratory but lousy and incorrect transliterations to/from any language cause often strange problems. As an example the famous Fabergé master Gabriel Nykänen. Yes, it is NYKÄNEN. He is mentioned in many sources among those Postnikova #1655 as Gabriel Niukkanen, which is incorrect. This Finn couldn't be traced anywhere in Finland until it suddenly became clear that his name was NYKÄNEN and now his family was found in Maavesi village close to the town of Pieksämäki in Finland. The reason was a transliteration error. There are lot of other examples too like agphile also mentioned.

This is why I'm so anxious to have an as much as possible correct spelling as well as a transliteration. And yes, it is also important is the object authentic or not, but as well important to know the correct maker's name and how it was written. Best would really be to use the Cyrillic name.

OK, OK, out of topic...end of story.

[Zolotnik]

Hi -
than all my Fabergé is wrong marked - because when I translate the Kyrillic letters I read FABERSCHE - analphabeths fake too!

Regards
Zolotnik

[Qrt.S]

Not exactly like that because SCH in German is Ш in Russian and SHAH in English. Ж is ZH in English, a difficult sound and most closely sounds like ZHEH.