Russian Silver Judaica - Fake or Genuine?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
mikkitobi
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:43 pm

Russian Silver Judaica - Fake or Genuine?

Postby mikkitobi » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:49 pm

Hi there.

I stumbled upon this site a few days ago and thought it was an ideal time to ask those more knowledgable than me about the authenticity or otherwise of 2 pieces of Russian Silver I purchased about 10 years ago on a visit to Warsaw....

The first item is a silver 'yad' or pointer that was used for reading the scroll of the Law in a synagogue. The second item is a silver 'buckle' that would have originally held some kind of cloth belt to wrap around the scroll to hold it tight.

My worry is that already 10 years ago at the Warsaw market there was a lot of fake judaica on sale. I saw many silver pointers, usually looking brand new and mass-produced, but the 2 items I bought were 'one-offs' and do appear to show signs of wear.

The pointer has a hallmark with year 1895 and the letters "AC" (so AS in English). The town mark appears to be either Vilnius or Moscow. Although the rider and horse are facing left and that COULD be Moscow 1895 I suspect it is Vilnius as I would expect far more Judaica from there in the 1890s than Moscow.

Here are some photos of the pointer:

http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00893.jpg
http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00894.jpg
http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00895.jpg
http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00896.jpg
http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00898.jpg
http://bizdirs.from-mt.com/glasgow/dsc00899.jpg

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

(admin edit - only one item per topic - please start a new topic with your other item)

Many thanks for any assistance!

Michael

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2760
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian Silver Judaica - Fake or Genuine?

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:19 am

I'm afraid that I have some bad news for you. Your tora pointer is a spurious item. The maker has not bothered to investigate how marks from that period should look like. In general, as you suspected, judacia objects for sale on the market are often fakes----too often. Keep away from them if you cannot identify the marks.

Kindly post a new thread for the other item, I did not have time to investigate it before admin edited this thread and deleted the information.

mikkitobi
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Russian Silver Judaica - Fake or Genuine?

Postby mikkitobi » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:48 am

Qrt.S wrote:I'm afraid that I have some bad news for you. Your tora pointer is a spurious item. The maker has not bothered to investigate how marks from that period should look like. In general, as you suspected, judacia objects for sale on the market are often fakes----too often. Keep away from them if you cannot identify the marks.

Kindly post a new thread for the other item, I did not have time to investigate it before admin edited this thread and deleted the information.


Thanks for your response.

I was pretty sure it was a fake but can you please elaborate on why the markings are wrong?

Thanks

Michael

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2760
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian Silver Judaica - Fake or Genuine?

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:15 am

In general I'm not so keen on explaining why something is not as it should because also fakers read these sites. Why tell them what is wrong. However, since you asked nicely I will give you some "hints". I anticipate that you have some knowledge of Russian markings.

1 The hallmark combination is clearly punched as three separate marks and not as one mark, which it should be because at that time this hallmark was a poincon called "troinik" i.e triple.
2 The font is wrong, the numbers are also wrong font
3 There is no assayer "AC" in Vilna at that time. It is supposed to be Vilna because the horse tail is straight up. The correct assayer was Aleksandr Krollau and he marked AK.
4 There is either a maker marking AC in Vilna at that time, at least no one I know about.
5 If it supposed to be Moscow, the assayer would be Aleksandr Skovronsky marking AC, but then the town crest is wrong.
6 Etc. etc.


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