Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Good afternoon all,
I have a question about an object of mine which I acquired a few months ago. It is a solid silver tea glass holder (podstakannak? smaller than the usual size...) and it is engraved, and has a diamond & sapphire set twin headed imperial eagle on the front. The diamonds and sapphires are genuine and have been tested, although the imperial eagle is not original. Looking closely, you can see where an engraving has been filled in underneath the decoration.
It measures 72mm in height including the handle, and the interior diameter is 54mm. It is marked to the base with the 1882-1898 dvoinik mark for Moscow, 84 and also has an additional Moscow mark on the handle. The makers mark is К.Ф and I think it is probably Karl Fend, but I am not sure, as the only mark of his which I know is К Ф with no dot.
Can anyone shed some light on the maker?
Regards,
Piette
I have a question about an object of mine which I acquired a few months ago. It is a solid silver tea glass holder (podstakannak? smaller than the usual size...) and it is engraved, and has a diamond & sapphire set twin headed imperial eagle on the front. The diamonds and sapphires are genuine and have been tested, although the imperial eagle is not original. Looking closely, you can see where an engraving has been filled in underneath the decoration.
It measures 72mm in height including the handle, and the interior diameter is 54mm. It is marked to the base with the 1882-1898 dvoinik mark for Moscow, 84 and also has an additional Moscow mark on the handle. The makers mark is К.Ф and I think it is probably Karl Fend, but I am not sure, as the only mark of his which I know is К Ф with no dot.
Can anyone shed some light on the maker?
Regards,
Piette
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Piette
Looking just to the engravings quality seems to be Fend, maybe worked with a little more care from what I've seen in the past. For this reason I will say : It’s a Fend+ , but never the another К.Ф
Regards,
Asti
Looking just to the engravings quality seems to be Fend, maybe worked with a little more care from what I've seen in the past. For this reason I will say : It’s a Fend+ , but never the another К.Ф
Regards,
Asti
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hello Asti,asti wrote:Hi Piette
Looking just to the engravings quality seems to be Fend, maybe worked with a little more care from what I've seen in the past. For this reason I will say : It’s a Fend+ , but never the another К.Ф
Regards,
Asti
Thank you for confirming this. When I bought it, I knew it wouldn't be Faberge, the quality isn't good enough and the surface isn't smooth enough.
Regards,
Piette
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Piette -
first, this is no Podsdakannik = teaglass holder, it is a charka = vodka cup. Size! Charki in this size existed in Imperial Russia....
Second, the whole object is newly (contemporary) made and with false marks, impressing it is made by the famous К.Ф, and sensless Imperial Eagle decoration impressing it was a presentation charka.
Just look at the "ant"-like St. George, wellknown as fake mark among collectors and the simple mashine engraving - always with a big cartouche for the monogramm. This style is often seen at the online auctions. Absolutely not the work of Karl Fend - just a fake.
Regards
Zolotnik
first, this is no Podsdakannik = teaglass holder, it is a charka = vodka cup. Size! Charki in this size existed in Imperial Russia....
Second, the whole object is newly (contemporary) made and with false marks, impressing it is made by the famous К.Ф, and sensless Imperial Eagle decoration impressing it was a presentation charka.
Just look at the "ant"-like St. George, wellknown as fake mark among collectors and the simple mashine engraving - always with a big cartouche for the monogramm. This style is often seen at the online auctions. Absolutely not the work of Karl Fend - just a fake.
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Piette, can you give us 2-3 fotos of the details from the engraving? I want to see especially the curves.
Regards,
Asti
Regards,
Asti
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hello,
Some photos of the engravings - I have just provided the links to the photos, as the full sized photos would not fit on this page.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/019.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/017.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/014.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/013.jpg
Regards,
Piette
Some photos of the engravings - I have just provided the links to the photos, as the full sized photos would not fit on this page.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/019.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/017.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/014.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj23 ... ne/013.jpg
Regards,
Piette
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Piette, thanks for the pictures.
Now I will have to swallow my words, and reduce the grade from Fend+ to Fend-... Zolotnik is absolutely right, 95% machine and 5% additions of hand work (the zig-zag, easiest part of the engraving).
Regards,
Asti
Now I will have to swallow my words, and reduce the grade from Fend+ to Fend-... Zolotnik is absolutely right, 95% machine and 5% additions of hand work (the zig-zag, easiest part of the engraving).
Regards,
Asti
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Good Evening Asti and Zolotnik,
Thank you for letting me know - we live and learn! I will keep the diamonds and get rid of the rest! :-)
Piette
Thank you for letting me know - we live and learn! I will keep the diamonds and get rid of the rest! :-)
Piette
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Piette -
Hi asti -
here the details for better understanding:
engraved by mashine = only one depth and "wrigggle work (zic-zac lines), mashine like and not individual
engraved by hand = different depths, different breadth and very individual. You can recognise a good engraver by his "handwriting"
If you make the decision to buy - first check the different aspects and ways of forgery! Fakes are never better than the original....
Regards
Zolotnik
Hi asti -
here the details for better understanding:
engraved by mashine = only one depth and "wrigggle work (zic-zac lines), mashine like and not individual
engraved by hand = different depths, different breadth and very individual. You can recognise a good engraver by his "handwriting"
If you make the decision to buy - first check the different aspects and ways of forgery! Fakes are never better than the original....
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
...Only eagle with stones is a fake. Good engraver hands workes like a machine. Look at a big circle of the cartouche...
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Child -
photos or books never gives the expression a healthy experience with real objects can give. If their is no difference between mashine and an idividuum - we all must be mashines. The contrary is the case! It is OK to have a point of view - but don´t be upset when you discover 60% of your collection are fakes - simple fakes, like the shown object, no sophysticated fakes...
You can learn or ignore, just chose your way.
Regards
Zolotnik
photos or books never gives the expression a healthy experience with real objects can give. If their is no difference between mashine and an idividuum - we all must be mashines. The contrary is the case! It is OK to have a point of view - but don´t be upset when you discover 60% of your collection are fakes - simple fakes, like the shown object, no sophysticated fakes...
You can learn or ignore, just chose your way.
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
I can only repeat my previous words. Zolotnik, you are some crasy on fakes.
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Child (nomen est omen...) -
Piette want to sell this podstakannik,
Regards
Zolotnik
Piette want to sell this podstakannik,
just PM him and you can own a unique masterpiece of Russian workmanship. But be quick - there are many people waiting for this opportunity....piette wrote: I will keep the diamonds and get rid of the rest! :-)
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Thanks for this oportunity to have othentik Faberge podstakannik, but I am expert, not a collektor.
Regards.
Regards.
Re: Small Russian Tea Glass Holder - Karl Fend?
Hi Child -
Regards
Zolotnik
that must be a joke!Child wrote: but I am expert, not a collektor.
Regards
Zolotnik