Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

If you know the maker, but not the pattern. - PHOTO REQUIRED
guito13
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Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby guito13 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:52 pm

I know its a long shot but I picked theses up today. They do test positive for silver. If anyone has any ideas such as age of the items (I think they are 1900's) or possibly a name of an appraiser who may know what I have I would appreciate it.

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dognose
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby dognose » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:48 am

Hi,

As you stated, this will be a long shot as such pieces were made in many places.

If American, then the Dirksen Silver Filigree Company is a possibility, see: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12426&p=111300

Trev.

guito13
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby guito13 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:41 am

Thank you for the reply. I did look them up as well. They have some similarities however I am not educated enough to know if they are the same maker. I would think they would have added makers marks to their pieces.

I tested both ends of the spoon for silver but I Noticed some bluing on one of the pieces in the center of the handle. This is a sign of copper. I was wondering if anyone knew if these pieces would possibly be soldered with a material that would cause this or should i try to test the center area of the handle to see if its plated?

dragonflywink
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby dragonflywink » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:06 pm

Filigree can be difficult since similar motifs and technique often appear on pieces of widely varied origins and dating. Have seen this design before on both forks and spoons (around 6" long and usually in sets) before, sometimes hanging from a filigree basket - they are usually marked "S800" (indicating .800 fineness), and have always suspected Indonesian origin, since that mark also shows up on more easily identifiable Yogya silver, would guess mid 20th century or even a bit earlier. Am very doubtful that this has any connection at all to Dirksen, and personally wouldn't subject it to any more acid-testing (copper is usually alloyed with silver)...

~Cheryl

guito13
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby guito13 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:54 pm

Thank you Cheryl. Your post was extremely informative. The acid testing was done by scratching onto a stone, not directly onto the piece. I will not test on the piece itself. Thank you for the information about the copper alloy as well.

Would you or anyone know what these would be used for? The forks only have 2 prongs and the spoons are relatively small, like a teaspoon.

Thank you again!

dragonflywink
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby dragonflywink » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:36 am

Ahhh, so it is part of a spoon & fork set - not really sure of the intended use, assume they are some sort of dessert set, have never seen any kind of liner in the filigree baskets they are sometimes hung from, so would guess it's for some sort of sweet treat...

~Cheryl

guito13
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby guito13 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:58 am

Thank you again Cheryl. I have 6 of the forks and 6 spoons as well. They really are nice to look at but I am struggling on how to use them. I think dessert may be the way to go.

Thank you again!

DianaGaleM
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby DianaGaleM » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:40 pm

As a stand-alone piece, a sharp, two-tined fork like this is usually used for serving cold meats, that is, it's a "cold meat fork."

As part of a set of forks and spoons, I'm at a bit of a loss.

It's a stabbing tool, so you wouldn't generally want to stick it in your mouth for fear of injury, but you could use it to stab something (e.g., an olive or pickle) and convey it to your mouth, putting only the food item, itself, in your mouth.

I guess I could see it as an hors d'oeuvre fork, but then, what's the spoon for?

ivin
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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby ivin » Mon May 06, 2019 5:00 am

Hello...

These come in sets, usually 6 forks and 6 spoons. The are hung around a filigree basket. The basket is used for dates or sweet meats.

The big problem is... 'where do they come from"...

I have seen both spoons and forks marked with S800 and S830. The basket set looks very Indonesian in manufacture. The marks are said to be partial copies of Dutch/European export silver marks, as the Dutch were very influential during the colonial period.

There were, and still are, numerous silversmiths in the main Indonesian cities, particular Yogyakarta.

Having said that, they also look like rough provincial workmanship from some of the small European silversmitheries.

I have in my possession a filigree basket with these spoons and forks, all marked S800, and it does have a European influence and style to it.

I wonder if anyone has been able to come up with a definitive attribution yet?

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Re: Very Ornate Pattern - NO Makers Mark

Postby dragonflywink » Wed May 08, 2019 9:56 pm

They're from Cyprus - my memory isn't what it used to be, but believe they're for fruit or sweetmeats. Still in production, mostly in Lefkara...

~Cheryl


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