Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:44 am

Can anyone please help me identify the metal content of this bracelet? It has only two hallmarks--one is what appears to be an Aladdin's lamp, and the other I cannot make out even under a microscope, but just below the figure is a small but clear 800. I apologize for the lack of good pictures, but the hallmarks are extremely small, my camera extremely old, and my steadiness of hand extremely poor!
I was wondering if this could be gold vermeil with .800 silver, or possibly Portugese gold of 19.2% or so. Only two hallmarks make me a little suspicious, but then if I knew I wouldn't be asking! I can say that a scratch test of the material tests above 18K, but I am not sure if I got through the gold fill (if that is the case). I am doing this for a friend and do not want to damage the piece.....otherwise I would file it before testing.
PLEASE let me know your thoughts--I am just about researched out! Thank you so much!
Image

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:16 pm

HELLO AGAIN,
Just checking about the bracelet......is anyone familiar with the "genie lamp" hallmark, even if not sure about the rest. I can't even find a reference to this hallmark--does it represent a maker. a country, an assayer or what? Other than seeing one similar but not the exact mark on some silver pieces, I'm clueless! Thanks to all who have visited this thread!

dognose
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby dognose » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:31 pm

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum (What took you so long to post?).

I think what may be best, as the mark image is so small, is that you draw what you see and then take a photo of the drawing. Hopefully we can take from there.

Trev.

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:39 pm

Thanks so much--I will give it a try! I have wanted to post in the past about other objects, but couldn't figure out to attach the pictures!

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:32 pm

Here's my best attempt (albeit a poor one!) at drawinImageg the hallmarks:

dognose
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby dognose » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:45 am

Hi,

Is this the mark:

Image

Trev.

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:08 pm

I don't think so, Trev, but then again it is soooooooo small I can't really make out any shape! Thanks so much for all your help with this piece.]

dognose
Site Admin
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Location: England

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby dognose » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:31 pm

One of these perhaps?:

Image

Trev.

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:56 pm

I saw these (Portugese gold?) marks and was hoping that's what I had, but I cannot make out a single distinguishing feature and definitely not antlers. Again, I am super impressed that you would take the time to help me out, although all the uncertainty is on my end ! Thanks again! Jack.

amena
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby amena » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:28 am

I left the gravity test to determine the purity of a silver object for the reasons I said in another post, but in this case since the gold specific weight is nearly double that the one of silver, is very easy to determine with the gravity test if it is gold or silver.
Regards
Amena

AG2012
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby AG2012 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:31 am

19.2K gold is very unnusual.On the other hand, Trev suggested Portuguese marks, being exceptions with .800 gold.If you cannot file it deep enough try gravity test as suggested by amena. It’s worth trying. Btw. if it`s gold wash there should be areas of worn vermeil (at the edges) with patina on silver.
Regards

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:45 pm

I tried the specific gravity test, but must be doing something wrong--will try again!

jhamner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby jhamner » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:05 am

I still can't get an accurate read on specific gravity! Also, I need to return the bracelet to it's owner. Many, many thanks to all who responded to my post!

chrismittty
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby chrismittty » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:50 am

Purely based from personal, in hand experience, id figure its gold. The scratch test is pretty indicative as most vermiel items arent thick enough to pass scratch tests for gold. Does not look like any gold fill markings i have seen, foreign or not.
Given we cannot make out the markings for sure, it could be Gilt Silver, sure, but when all else fails, test. ALMOST all of my silver gilt immediately tests as silver not gold whatsoever.

Aguest
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Re: Gold, silver, or gold on silver???

Postby Aguest » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:12 am

Agreed, also it is very difficult to fake the "bright cut" marks on the gold band. These are hand-chased details that are each just a little bit different, you can find them most commonly on spoons from the late 19th century aesthetic period and also monograms on American coin silver spoons. Very few people even have the skill to do this kind of hand-chased details anymore, it is a dying art. Details on gold became more machine-made at the beginning of the 20th century, and bright-cut hand-chased details went out of style.

If it was gold-plated, the bright-cut hand-chased details would poke through the top layer of gold and you would see the silver or base metal layer underneath. So I think it is actually high-quality gold, that is my impression, and the hand-chased details are good.

Also, sometimes clasps on jewelry and stems on pocket watches are of a lower percentage of gold, just to help with the functionality of the piece. You don't want a soft clasp on a bracelet, or a soft stem on a pocket watch, so these can be of a lower quality. In the case of Swiss pocket watches, there are some really small and really obscure markings on the top stems which signify they are not high-quality gold.

It looks like real gold, and the hallmarks look authentic, I get a good feeling about the piece.


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