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Good day! I'm trying to decipher the hallmarks on an old watch case, but I suspect my understanding isn't deep enough.


From what I've researched, it has the import mark for Glasgow, and the 9k gold hallmark is easy enough. It has what I assume is a "makers" mark (which looks kinda like Mappin and Webb), but I'm not sure what that actually means in conjunction with the import hallmark...is that the mark of the importer, or the original maker? Finally, there's the date code. The closest I can find for that from Glasgow is 1938, but that doesn't line up with the age of the watch (1916) or the style of the case (fairly classic trench watch design typical of just after WWI). And of course, the box is wrong. From this, I'm kinda assuming that the date codes for "import" items were different.
Finally, there's the "A5M" mark on the top. The punch looks similar in style to the hallmarks (as opposed to the engraved serial number), so I thought that might indicate the country of origin? Or am I just being hopeful?

Additional information if you're curious; the watch movement was made in 1913 and sold to "E.H.Newman and Sons", a jewelery store in Brantford Ontario in 1916. It was likley resold as a "house brand" watch. The case was probably sourced seperately.

Here's the whole watch:

And the inside dustcover:
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Hi Rob,

Welcome to the Forum.

Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, we are not ignoring you, but I think you have most of us, well me at least, stumped.

The 'M & W' mark was registered at Edinburgh in 1926 by Robert Pringle & Sons. You may wish to check this site out yourself as Robert Pringle & Sons seem to have had a habit of registering marks with initials that appear to have no connection with their own.

http://www.incorporationofgoldsmiths.co.uk/index.html

Robert Pringle were known exporters of many lines of jewellery work and maybe, if you are sure the watch dates to 1916, this is a replacement case.

The cartouches around the date letters do differ from silver to gold, and I wonder if your watchcase was assayed at Glasgow in 1926 with the marks being viewed upside down.



Trev.

dognose wrote:The 'M & W' mark was registered at Edinburgh in 1926 by Robert Pringle & Sons. You may wish to check this site out yourself as Robert Pringle & Sons seem to have had a habit of registering marks with initials that appear to have no connection with their own.

Excellent link, thanks!

dognose wrote:The cartouches around the date letters do differ from silver to gold, and I wonder if your watchcase was assayed at Glasgow in 1926 with the marks being viewed upside down.

! I honestly never thought to look at it upside down. 1926 might fit, since watches like this were typically bought in bulk and kept in inventory by the jewelers. Brilliant!
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Hi, i have a 925 silver watch & havnt a clue what make it is,the only info on rev' is FF, one F lying flat with the other lying on top! & A5M, There is date letter(small case) h, in an oval, & cant find that anywhere! Also the ref' no' is; 8663,i did type that& searched & found a gold pocket watch on your site with same marks as mine(apart from date letter) but that had(what u described asooking like mapplin & webb (the mw) & so the FF & A5M wernt really mentioned-as the gold pocket watch had more info,which u concentrated on, whereas my silver watch only has the above info,leaving me stumped,i would love any info, thanks (excuse my 'wording' etc, as this is my first post!) Again thanks in advance for any info.

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