Russian spoon

MARK IMAGE REQUIRED
niceguy1
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:50 pm

Russian spoon

Postby niceguy1 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:42 pm

HI

What information can you give me about these hallmarks? Ak, 1890, 84 & city mark.

thanks


Image

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Goldstein » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:21 pm

Hi niceguy -

a sharp photo would help!

Looks like Reval - but too blurry to be sure.

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:16 am

Senseless fantasy marking (read fake!)

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:41 pm

Hello!
This is Minsk. This coat of arms was approved in 1878, but began to be used as an town mark since 1890.
Perhaps the maker is A.Kreindel' (А.Крейндель).
Regards.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Goldstein » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:05 pm

Hi Ubaranda -

thank you for the valuable informations!

Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:39 am

This is interesting. The marking is not according to the regulations. The fineness mark has no notches (should have after 1882) and there is no assayer's mark just a year, but as Ubaranda states....It is also notable that in 1890thies there was no assay office in Minsk. Ivan Chertenkov left after 1878---

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:06 am

Qrt.S wrote:....It is also notable that in 1890thies there was no assay office in Minsk. Ivan Chertenkov left after 1878---


It's wrong. The assay office in Minsk existed until 1896. From 1882 until the closure of the assay office, the assayer was Artemiy Stepanov.
Ivan Chertenkov never worked in Minsk. From 1866 to 1883 he was the assayer at Kamenetz-Podolskiy.
Your mistake was caused by the fact that in a certain period of time in Minsk and in Kamenetz-Podolskiy there was the same town mark - two-headed eagle.
Regards.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Goldstein » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:57 am

Hi Ubaranda -

I really appreciate your contributions, which are supported by meaningful images and sources! I would appreciate it very much if we hear more from you! Many thanks!

Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
contributor
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:53 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Goldstein » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:57 am

Hi Qrt.S -

Qrt.S wrote:Senseless fantasy marking (read fake!)


I love your bizarre expertise, your persistent "I know it all" and your confused writing style. Please stay as you are - never doubt yourself!

Regards
Goldstein

niceguy1
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Russian spoon

Postby niceguy1 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:48 pm

HI ALL

I should have this set (as well as the other one i posted) in hand in a few weeks & will be able to post clearer pics.

Thanks for sharing your opinions.

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:29 pm

@Ubaranda,
Thank you for the valuable information. By time more and more pieces in the Russian silver jigsaw fall into their places.

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:14 pm

@Ubaranda
One more question, if you don't mind. In Postnikova Minsk is a mess that we all know. However, there are some other assayers mentioned there, among those Frolov, Uchatov and Sorokin. Is this correct or incorrect?
Thank you in advance.

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:01 am

Qrt.S wrote:@Ubaranda
One more question, if you don't mind. In Postnikova Minsk is a mess that we all know. However, there are some other assayers mentioned there, among those Frolov, Uchatov and Sorokin. Is this correct or incorrect?
Thank you in advance.


Hello!
Information about Frolov and Ushatov is correct. Unfortunately, I have no information about Sorokin.
By the way, on the shown pictures the mark Б.Т belongs to the famous Minsk maker Borukh Topaz (Борух Топаз).
Regards.

Image
Image

Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 2950
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Qrt.S » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:57 am

@Ubaranda
Thank you very match. Do you possibly have the working period and forenames of Frolov and Ushatov...H, Nikolai? In Postinokva Ushatov's forenames are Aleksandr Vasilyevich...HY on the mark???

Matvei Sorokin in Minsk is mentioned in Postnikova #1896. However, as said Minsk is a mess in P, but correct or not?

Dad
contributor
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Dad » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:32 pm

Ubaranda wrote:
Hello!
Information about Frolov and Ushatov is correct.



Hi. Tell me, please. Where you took information about Frolov and Ushatov?

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:46 pm

Qrt.S wrote:@Ubaranda
Thank you very match. Do you possibly have the working period and forenames of Frolov and Ushatov...H, Nikolai? In Postinokva Ushatov's forenames are Aleksandr Vasilyevich...HY on the mark???

Matvei Sorokin in Minsk is mentioned in Postnikova #1896. However, as said Minsk is a mess in P, but correct or not?


Yes, the name of Ushatov is Nikolay. He worked in 1871 - 1874. Unfortunately I haven't accurate information regarding the period of work of Frolov.

Qrt.S, especially for you I found the mark of Sorokin. The maker is Movsha Topaz (Мовша Топаз) - brother of Borukh Topaz.

Regards.

Image

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:50 pm

Dad wrote:Hi. Tell me, please. Where you took information about Frolov and Ushatov?


Hello!
From various sources, one of which is your posts on Russian forums. Is this bad? :-)

Image

Dad
contributor
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Dad » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:48 am

No problem. Your right is use of all sources in open access.
I ask about other (various) sources, which you noted.

Dad
contributor
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Dad » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:05 am

I can add that Matvei Sorokin never worked in the Minsk Assay Office.
Short time (1874-1877) assayer Matvei Sergeyev worked in Minsk Assay Office (after Yaroslavl) .

Ubaranda
contributor
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:36 am

Re: Russian spoon

Postby Ubaranda » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:22 pm

Dad wrote:No problem. Your right is use of all sources in open access.
I ask about other (various) sources, which you noted.


Dad, many thanks for very useful information!


Return to “German, French, Dutch, Russian, Scandinavian or Other - Single Image”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests