16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

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bezalel
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16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:05 pm

I am trying to verify these hallmarks found on a book binding. It was sold as "16th century Frankfurt A.M. mark, and makers mark KH found in Rosenberg 3, No 2030". I looked in the Tardy guide and the first mark looks more like the 1624 mark from Aix-la-Chapelle than from Frankfurt. Also I do not have Rosenberg, can someone tell me if the full name of "KH" is listed in Rosenberg? Thoughts on the "Frankfurt" mark? Thank you everyone.

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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby dognose » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:16 pm

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bezalel
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:19 pm

Image
Image

Bahner
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Bahner » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:37 pm

Hello, Rosenberg is not aware of the name of the goldsmith, he is not even sure whether he is from Frankfurt or Aachen. Rosenberg is online, see here

http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit ... /1/082.jpg

In 1992 the Franfurt based "Museum fuer Kunsthandwerk" published a catalogue of its silver collection. Under the catalogue number 2 it lists a tankard with a set of two marks very much like the two on this binding. The name of the maker was still unknown in 1992, almost 70 years after Rosenberg, and probably still is.

Do the Hebrew inscriptions on the binding give a hint ? And was the book (my guess: a bible) published in Frankfurt ?

Regards, Bahner

Theoderich
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Theoderich » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:43 pm

lets have a look into the book - there will be a page with a date

bezalel
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:38 pm

Hi everyone. Thanks for your help so far. The book inside is a Hebrew prayer book from Venice, 1587. So now that I can't find anything about KH, does anyone have an opinion if the first mark is actually Frankfurt A.M.?

bezalel
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:40 pm

Regarding the inscriptions --- no help. This binding appears to have numerous replaced silver mounts, and the plaques with the Hebrew are later additions. It's a real mess, but I at least want to get the marks down.

bezalel
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:44 pm

Bahner can you tell me the name of the catalogue that features the two marks on the tankard? What does that catalogue state as far as age and origin for those marks?

Theoderich
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Theoderich » Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:00 pm

there are 2 objekts in Rosenberg Nr. 2030
1: Serpentinsteinpokal mit ornamentierter Fassung
2: Ziervergold. Spitzbecher mit Bandwerk-Katuschen und gesetzten Löwenköpfen. Widmungsinschrift v.1589

Bahner
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Bahner » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:29 am

Hello,

the title is "´Hildegard Hoos: Profanes Silber 16.-20. Jahrhundert". Museum fuer Kunsthandwerk. Frankfurt am Main.1992. ISBN 3-88270-057-2.

Quote: "Fassung: Aachen oder Frankfurt ? Mitte 16. Jahrhundert (R3 17 oder 1998 ?). Meistermarke KH (ligiert) im Wappenschild (R3 32 oder 2030 ?)"

Regards

Bahner

.

bezalel
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby bezalel » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:43 am

Thank you both for your help!

Theoderich
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Theoderich » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:05 pm

Theoderich wrote:
2: Ziervergold. Spitzbecher mit Bandwerk-Katuschen und gesetzten Löwenköpfen. Widmungsinschrift v.1589


I have seen this 2nd object in Rosenberg on
sothebys 17 MAY 2011, Lot 247

description of sothebys:
"A GERMAN PARCEL-GILT SILVER CUP, PROBABLY HANS KNORR, FRANKFURT A.M., CIRCA 1589"

Aguest
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Aguest » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Could the silver loop at the top once held a chain for a silver "pointer," or a "Yad," which was used during the reading of the prayer book? I would assume the pointer would have bore the same hallmarks as the book, but that is just an assumption.

Theoderich
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Theoderich » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:18 pm

Hans Knorr (*9.12.1546)
oo 25.10.1574
+28.9.1596

ref. W.Scheffler, Goldschmiede Hessens, S.127, no 35

niceguy1
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby niceguy1 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:27 pm

bezalel wrote:It's a real mess

A proper mess indeed, somehow the whole thing don't look too kosher to me.

Theoderich
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Re: 16C Frankfurt? Full name in Rosenberg?

Postby Theoderich » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:46 am

niceguy1 wrote:
bezalel wrote:It's a real mess

A proper mess indeed, somehow the whole thing don't look too kosher to me.


I am not sure about the whole thing, but I think the leon head is typical for him
ref to sothebys
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