A real mystery...

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Smokanabeach
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Location: France, Cannes

A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:30 pm

Hello everybody,

hope everyone is fine!

I'm back with an hallmark I found on (gold washed?) silver knifes. I've got 24 units of this model, some hallmarked, others not what is my first problem. Please note that the blade are also gold washed without hallmark to confirm...

Image

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I think this the first time I can't identify an hallmark. Most of the time I can see hallmarks in details even if I don't know where it comes from but here... a real brain teaser... The mark in a lozenge looks like a rabbit head... but also could be a veal head... or may be a sheep... Anyway, i don't know and the hallmark is not clear enought to be sure of what it is... Could it be a mixed metal? ( As the french hallmark "boar & eagle heads)

Image

Second line of though is what's look to be a silversmith nmark... "P J" and then "N.L" (or E) in tiny letter...

Image

So, as you may have understood, i'm definitely lost...

Thanks for your help!

Don

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:04 pm

As i constat that my ''case'' is a hard one, I will try to post another (better) pics tomorrow!

Smokanabeach
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Location: France, Cannes

Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:11 am

Dear members,

as said before, please find bellow other pics of the hallmarks. As I don't know this mark, I post pics from 2 different view: pseudo "head" looking right and second to the left:

Image

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Image

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Here we are! That's the best I can do... Second hallmark "PJ N.E" (or "PJ N.L") can be a way...

Anyway, some questions:

- what about the period of those knife?
- have you already seen flatware all "gold washed"? other than french which have allways Minerva marks on the blade and handle...
- could we consider that's silver plated hallmark?

Thanks for your help!

Best regards,

Don

Bahner
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: A real mystery...

Postby Bahner » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:04 am

Hello, have seen complete gold wash on small silver flatware (for fruits) from Germany, 19th century. Just a gut feeling but I would date your pieces to the 19ch century, too. Possibly a little earlier or a little later. Really just a gut feeling. If this turns out to be plate it is most likely an early production of German silver /Packfong etc., dating to the 1820ies-1840ies. Again, just a gut feeling. Regards, Bahner

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:33 am

Hello Bahner and thanks for your help!

Just to let you know, my knifes are fruits knifes!!!... A good "gut feeling" ;-)

About the marks, i conclude you never see it before?

Regards,

Don

legrandmogol
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby legrandmogol » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:37 am

More likely your knives are dessert / Breakfast knives as you would make a terrible mess cutting anything but a banana with these

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:39 pm

Thanks for your recommandations ''legrandmogol'' ;-)

Anyway, still in my quest of knowing what could be those hallmarks!

What about '' Could it be a mixed metal? ( As the french hallmark "boar & eagle heads)''?

Looking again it looks like an eagle head turning to the left and a boar looking to the right. As french hallmark does not correspond, any idea about a same foreign mark?

legrandmogol
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby legrandmogol » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:58 pm

In the 4th and last picture of your original posting, there is a writing on the handle that I can only sort of make out, it looks like P I N? if you could get a better picure of that I think it might lead to something.

Smokanabeach
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Location: France, Cannes

Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:10 pm

Thanks for answering.

As said previously ''Second line of though is what's look to be a silversmith mark... "P J" and then "N.L" (or E) in tiny letter...''

legrandmogol
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby legrandmogol » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Whoever PJ NL or NE is, is probably the key to the mystery here which is why I asked if there are clearer pictures. Despite your excellent efforts, the other marks are so small its hard to tell what it is but I have never seen French Eagle head marks inside a diamond and these would be the first solid 18K gold let alone gold and platinum knives I've ever seen. If these were solid silver the maker would probably have signed the blade as well even if the blade were another metal

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:07 pm

Note that i suggest mixed metal. Which on french looks like bellow:

Image

Anyway, i will try to take better pics of the second mark.

Smokanabeach
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Location: France, Cannes

Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:13 pm

One more thing: it is usual with french filled silver knife to find hallmark only on handle as far as blades are steel made.

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:53 am

As asked, a picture of what could be a silversmith mark

Image

Smokanabeach
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Re: A real mystery...

Postby Smokanabeach » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:40 pm

Any idea? It looks like it will stand a ''real mistery''!!! ;-)


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