Russian city mark

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
olga_kehl
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Russian city mark

Postby olga_kehl » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:03 pm

Dear collegues,

Could you please help with city mark. Many thanks!

Image
Image

oel
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby oel » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:35 pm

Hi Olga, to me it appears no images are showing?

Peter.

olga_kehl
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby olga_kehl » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:48 pm

Peter, hello. I see images well, I'll try to find other hosting for ther. 5 minutes

oel wrote:Hi Olga, to me it appears no images are showing?

Peter.


Image

olga_kehl
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby olga_kehl » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:49 pm

Peter, better? )

oel
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby oel » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:52 pm

Thanks Olga,all clear.

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:53 am

Hmmmm...dubious marks. Is the ring silver? What stone is it, difficult to see it from the picture.

olga_kehl
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby olga_kehl » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:47 am

Qrt.S wrote:Hmmmm...dubious marks. Is the ring silver? What stone is it, difficult to see it from the picture.


Silver )) 84 ) And rutile in quartz.

Traintime
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Traintime » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:55 am

Qrt.S...while we're here, the photos are lost where you identified a Polish transitional mark of a man with feathered cap facing right. Can you post an example of this for the record?

Now..does anything here suggest Warsaw or nearby Polish areas where oddity marking styles might be found? Exactly what is mark #2 supposed to be? Was it added later in an open space?

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:04 am

@Trantime

Sorry but no bells are ringing...When did it happen? Please gimme the topic number and I give it a try.

Traintime
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Traintime » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:17 am


Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:26 am

@Traintime
OK, I'm with you now. Is the the mark you long for? I don't have a photo of a real mark only this drawing.
Image

Nonetheless, about the ring's marks. The second mark is supposed to show a right looking kokoshnik identifying the assay office. The third mark tries to show the coat of arms for Warsaw (a double headed eagle) but in that case the second mark should carry a cipher (a dot) behind the kokshnik's neck (1913-1917). It should look like this mark:
Image
Does the second mark look like the picture above (it looks more like a man with a beard) and where is the dot? In general the whole outlook of it is "odd"? That is why I am a bit suspicious.
By the way, it would be interesting to know what is the exact diameter in mm of the second mark.

AG2012
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby AG2012 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:49 am

The third mark from the left is definitively an attempt (unsuccessful) to depict the imperial eagle.
Regards

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:31 am

AG2012 wrote:The third mark from the left is definitively an attempt (unsuccessful) to depict the imperial eagle.
Regards


I thought of that too but in that case there is no town mark and makes it even more suspicious...

Traintime
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Traintime » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:21 pm

@Qrt.S...Perfect, thank you. Added link at original thread for view of mark here.

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:24 pm

@Traintime,
No problem, but what is the actual problem, I don't get it?

Traintime
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Traintime » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:32 pm

@Qrt.S Without the photos (now blank) the author's description of their supposed first Kokoshnik was tricky to follow. Since you mentioned the Polish Transitional mark was also applied to where old Russian marks existed, it seemed a good idea to get the shape of the mark and detail to eliminate it here and in any future searches that might run across that thread.

Now...the only mark I see with six even sides, like the shape of mark 3 here, is a French Guarantee on silver imports in early 1800's regardless of the interior details. Obviously not of any help here. The closest Warsaw mark seems to be eight even sides. The mark is at least questionable in lieu of a six-sided sample. Anyone got such a mark?

Qrt.S
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Qrt.S » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:20 pm

There are no six-sided Warsaw town marks. The court supplier marks have round shields or no shield. At least to my knowledge. Postnikova has also made a fatal mistake in her book by mixing Warsaw marks with Minsk (not to mention the maker's marks..."). See page 200, #1890a. The shown town mark is most likely Warsaw's mark.
Frankly said, the marks on the ring are bogus marks.

Traintime
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Traintime » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:11 pm

There Olga, Qrt.S has layed it all out. Marks 2 & 3 not even close to real known samples. Hope you have better days and finds.

Bad marks are like insect control...they just come back in swarms!

Dad
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Dad » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Hi

This marks (on the ring) are fals marks. Modern fake.

Goldstein
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Re: Russian city mark

Postby Goldstein » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:06 am

Hi -

How many "experts" are needed to expose a cheap fair fake?

Regards
Goldstein


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