Need Help ID

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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razal1jasper
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:44 pm

Need Help ID

Post by razal1jasper »

I have a russian enamel silver buckle with kindjal clasp from my mother's estate. It has the number 25 scratched on each separate piece. It has a indented round kokoshnik of a womans head looking left to the number 84 and an AP on the other side of the head . There is also a square (maker's?) mark AP in cyrillic. Anyone have any information?
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Dad
contributor
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Need Help ID

Post by Dad »

Hi.

Period 1903-1908, souvenir belt.

"AP" on the right of the head is Alexandr Romanov (the head of S.-Petersburg assay office)

"АД" is maker's mark.

" Dallmann Alexander Carlovich (Дальман Александр Карлович)
(born in Finland) owner of a silverware factory, 1880-1905; in 1897 at the factory there worked 13 workers and 6 boys; it manufactured items for 25,000 rubles. B. Zelenina str., 19. St. Petersburg.
Initials on the hallmark: АД". From: Ivanov A.N. “Gold and silversmiths in Russia (1600-1926)”. Moscow, 2002

Best Reg..
Qrt.S
contributor
Posts: 3801
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:32 am
Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Need Help ID

Post by Qrt.S »

I disagree with you Dad for the following reasons:
1. St Petersburg was not the place where enamel work was manufactured. It was in Moscow even if there are some few enameled pieces made in St P.
2. The buckle is not even close to St Petersburg style. It look more like being from Tiflis, Baku, K aukaz....
3. Not of such quality one would expect from a St Petersburg maker. Its quality is clos to poor.
4. Irrespective of what Ivanov states, I have no trace of a Finnish maker by the name of Dallmann. It is not a Finnish name. It should be Dalman or Dahlman, but as said nothing. @Dad, look at the Russian spelling of the name.
5. Finnish or non-Russian makers in St P. usually used Latin Letters not Cyrillic in their marks (not all but still...).
6. I have seen very similar buckles that have been fakes

I would say that this is a very dubious object.
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Need Help ID

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi all -
collecting Russian silver/enamel/niello etc. has a certain advantage: you know what you are talking of and one must only have a look at your objects.
Here the facts:
Dalman worked in St. Petersburg, mostly in enamel (bracelets, pageturner etc.)

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A pageturner by him

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His mark - compare with the shown mark

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The quality level of his work - compare with the ugly buckle

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Now you can decide .

Regards
Zolotnik
Dad
contributor
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:52 pm
Location: St. Petersburg

Re: Need Help ID

Post by Dad »

Qrt.S.
I repeat: "souvenir products". The products "a la Caucasus" were popular in Russia. In 1910 its workshop was advertized so: "Мастерская серебр. изд. А. К. Дальман (кавказские изделия), Пороховская ул. 6. " (Workshop silv. prod. A.K.Dalman (the Caucasian products), Porokhovskaya St. 6.).
Also, at A.K.Dalman's factory widely used multi-color enamels.

http://www.xn----dtbikagememahdgab5aia4 ... -veka.html

http://thimbles.ru/page.php?109

Zolotnik.
If to clear this buckle of dirt, it won't differ from your subjects. Product usual, inexpensive. Punches are very nice.

But! And it is important. To me it is indifferent. Because for author of this theme it is indifferent too.

Best Reg..
Zolotnik
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Germany

Re: Need Help ID

Post by Zolotnik »

Hi Dad -
I want to bring your attention to some "anomalies" on the present Russian silver/enamel/niello etc. market. As you might know (I hope...) the forgers invent about every half year a new object for their trade. Now belt buckels (mostly in enamel or niello) are en vogue. Umong other things (if you are knowledgeable...) three details are prominent: 1) they are always from A. Dalman, 2) the two halfs are always marked with scratched numbers (so they can not be interchanged while made in some third world factory) - I personally never have seen original buckels from Russia with scratch numbers - and my 56 objects in my collection have all no numbers. 3) the quality/detail and the form/design is more or less poor and very phantasy.
So I warn all readers to be cautious....

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the photo of razal1jasper´s buckle

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Regards
Zolotnik
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